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SCS Law & Smart Parking

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  • logician
    logician Posts: 204 Forumite
    Logician - Its more, quality posts tend to be proven over time
    As opposed to yours, which are just suspect over time.


    Nosferatu - perhaps if you had anything helpful to add to assist the OP that would be useful, since you replied making an unsubstantiated attack on me, then clearly not.

    My advice regarding altering the wording about "Scam" still stands.

    I am sure that I do not have to remind you that judges sit on these cases and I cannot recall any of them calling these "scams"
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,287 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    I am sure we all know a rip-off, aggressive, nasty rogue company when we see one.

    Any words used by MPs in Parliament about this dross industry, are fair enough for us to use:

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • System
    System Posts: 178,090 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    MP's can say what they like in Parliament as they have parliamentary privilege. Most choose not to repeat those words outside the chamber.

    Whether an OP wishes to make statements like that without parliamentary privilege is up to them but will carry some risk - unless it is simply a reference to Hansard.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,287 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    True, it can be worded as a quote from Hansard, which gives it somewhat more clout anyway.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • manwyl
    manwyl Posts: 63 Forumite
    First Anniversary
    Thanks to everyone for your advice. I have edited my reply. Draft below. I will get this sent tomorrow -

    Dear Sirs,

    I am in receipt of your letter dated xxx xxxxxxxx xxxx.

    You haven’t answered my question - "please can you confirm how many tickets were sold to vehicles with similar registrations to my own, but for which there is no record of them entering or leaving the car park on the day/at the time in question?". You have instead sent the transaction report. I know this is incomplete because Smart Parking has already admitted there was a ticket bought for a car registration that wasn't in the car park that day. It was very similar to my car’s registration. This report does not contain the similar registration number.

    Please confirm the details of tickets sold to vehicles for which there is no record of the vehicle entering or leaving the car park on the entire day in question and provide the time and registration information.

    You have only provided data from the supposed time entering the car park until 11 minutes before the supposed leaving time. The date and time used to produce the list of transactions may not be accurate e.g. the clocks went forward an hour at the end of March (approximately 6 weeks before the alleged offence). If the clocks on all the equipment weren’t updated then the data produced in the report would be for the wrong period of time. Any time discrepancies could hide a valid transaction.

    Please confirm when the ticket machines and ANPR cameras were serviced and/or synchronised with each other and the date/time checked for accuracy in the build up to the day in question.

    The photos provided, although clear this time, aren't accompanied with a date and time stamp to show when they were taken. This doesn't prove the signs were present or readable at the time of the alleged offence and without a date stamp the likelihood cannot be determined.

    Please confirm exactly when all of the photos provided were taken.

    In the Beavis case it was a free car park with limited staying times to encourage a churn of customers and increase the opportunities for genuine customers to park there. Matalan Cheltenham’s car park is for anyone to use, not just Matalan customers. Some of the additional signs in the car park highlight this fact "Have you paid & displayed? Refund for Matalan customers". This contradicts your statement "controlling parking to ensure parking for Matalan customers". A genuine control of parking for Matalan customers would be accompanied by the car park being for customers only. It isn't, so Smart Parking’s only potential loss is if someone didn't pay for a ticket. A ticket was paid for and displayed in my car well within ten minutes of entering the car park. Smart Parking have conceded a ticket was bought for a registration number very similar to my own that wasn’t in the car park. This was established within a few minutes during the first phone call with them after receiving the PCN. This highlighted that there is no loss to them and therefore the penalty has no legitimate purpose. Smart Parking still chose to proceed and are being intentionally punitive.

    Did you and Smart Parking enjoy the Parliamentary debate recently, exposing the outrageous conduct of debt collectors and robo-claim solicitors cosily nestling with the rogue parking firms, where Smart Parking were named and shamed? If you proceed, I will bring the will of Parliament to the attention of the court to show the conduct of this reportedly 'out of control' rogue ticketer who have been sacked by Asda and Matalan in the past year alone, for aggressively ticketing customers.

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    Giles Watling (Clacton) (Con) “In my view, that is an outrageous scam, and it is still going on. It enables Smart Parking to issue tickets and therefore collect fines.”

    Peter Wishart “That car park is operated by the John Wayne of all the cowboys, the appalling and loathed Smart Parking, a company that blights communities throughout Scotland, including Inverness, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry). It distributes fines like confetti, and its so-called smart technology seems almost designed to frustrate motorists and harvest fines from them.”

    Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op) “I also want to highlight the firms of solicitors that work with those companies. We might refer to such firms as “roboclaims” firms, and they often have a close and cosy relationship with the parking companies.”

    I will be complaining to my MP to ensure their backing to end this “scam”.

    I too expect a reply within 7 days to provide the information requested and/or informing me this matter has been concluded.
  • Thanks so much Coupon-m. I've done so. I'm unclear as to the protocol here, but would it be worth my posting my draft letter for others to see, anonymised of course?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,287 Forumite
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    On your own thread, yes! Not here.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • manwyl
    manwyl Posts: 63 Forumite
    First Anniversary
    edited 28 February 2018 at 12:26PM
    Good morning all. We have had another reply from SCS. This one contains photos of the signs in the car park along with the date/time stamps. I can upload them all if you would like.

    dropbox.com/sh/5pb6c0wkqw9z3ji/AABvJYDswnFhUqMA0HhJEYzza?dl=0

    They haven't clarified whether the registrations on the transaction log match up with the ANPR cameras (was the car in the car park or not).:mad:
    The date/times on the photos are dated 11mths prior to the alleged offence.
    The second to last paragraph is of most interest. Total BS in my opinion. The signs contradict their argument about ensuring parking for customers. Simply not possible if anyone can park there. :mad:

    I look forward to any suggestions on how to reply. Your help is always invaluable and greatly appreciated.

    Many thanks
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,323 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5pb6c0wkqw9z3ji/AABvJYDswnFhUqMA0HhJEYzza?dl=0

    I think you have enough posts under your belt to post live links now.

    They have stated that at 14:46 there was a vehicle with a VRM similar to yours. Notwithstanding what they said (get it wrong, break the rules), it might be worth checking out whether a vehicle with that VRM actually exists. There was a case very recently where no actual vehicle currently had the incorrectly entered VRM attached to it. Could be useful if this ever gets to court.

    Use this tool:

    https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

    How far 'out' was the entered VRM compared with your own? Transposed digits? Letter O used instead of a zero?
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • manwyl
    manwyl Posts: 63 Forumite
    First Anniversary
    Umkomaas wrote: »
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5pb6c0wkqw9z3ji/AABvJYDswnFhUqMA0HhJEYzza?dl=0

    I think you have enough posts under your belt to post live links now.

    They have stated that at 14:46 there was a vehicle with a VRM similar to yours. Notwithstanding what they said (get it wrong, break the rules), it might be worth checking out whether a vehicle with that VRM actually exists. There was a case very recently where no actual vehicle currently had the incorrectly entered VRM attached to it. Could be useful if this ever gets to court.

    Use this tool:

    https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk

    How far 'out' was the entered VRM compared with your own? Transposed digits? Letter O used instead of a zero?

    Thank you for your reply. :T

    They have redacted the report so only half of each registration is visible. The part I can see matches the second half of my reg exactly. They should still be able to compare this report with a similar one from the ANPR cameras to help identify my ticket precisely. A smart parking rep found this in under a minute when we phoned them originally. They appear to be being deliberately thick on this point.
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