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Help Requested With WS - Court Hearing vs Gladstones & PPM Ltd

2456713

Comments

  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
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    I'm all ears, believe me, otherwise I wouldn't have posted here in the first place!

    If I had admitted being aware of a contract prior to parking that would, clearly, be a big mistake. I don't see where I have done that so, if that is the case, I would be grateful if it could be pointed out.

    I also realise I shouldn't have admitted to being the driver but that ship, unfortunately, has sailed (given that I spoke directly to the guy who issued the PCN at the time).

    Any other input on changing tack when I reshape this into a witness statement is appreciated.

    Great, so admitting to being the driver is no big deal, it's going
    to be the signs and landowner permission (if any) that is to be
    worked on.

    One saving grace is that it is Gladstones who are generally
    known as completely incompetent, not just here but to
    the courts as well.

    Have a read of the Parking Prankster about Gladstones.
    The Parking Prankster is not a joke, his blog is highly respected
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=gladstones

    There are a couple of great solicitors on this forum who offer
    advice for free plus ... brilliant forum members who can start
    to guide you on your path to winning
  • beamerguy wrote: »
    One saving grace is that it is Gladstones who are generally
    known as completely incompetent, not just here but to
    the courts as well.

    Have a read of the Parking Prankster about Gladstones.
    The Parking Prankster is not a joke, his blog is highly respected
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=gladstones

    Thanks.

    I will read through the prankster posts on that link. I have already read his blog extensively, as well as info on similar cases on this site and others. The 'forbidding contract' cases I reference in the defence are from the prankster blog as is some of the wording relating to consumer contracts legislation.

    I guess I will work on my WS and post here when I have something, but the key points (as far as I'm aware) are...

    1. Forbidding Signage

    2. Inadequate Signage

    3. Consumer Contracts Legislation

    4. Landowner Permission

    As to (4) I have asked PPM for a copy of their contract with the landowner several times and so far they have refused to supply it. Presumably they have to supply it before the court date otherwise they will look pretty stupid?
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
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    A ws is a series of facts
    Not arguments
    Introduce arguments gently.
  • Here are some pics of the site for your viewing pleasure...

    I'll get a better pic of this one but this is the most prominent signage at the site. It is at least twice as large as the PPM one, co-op branded, and in a much, much larger font.

    No offer to park. No mention of charges. Nothing to look elsewhere for T&Cs.

    This notice has always been at the site and if you asked within the co-op if it was OK to park there for 15 mins or so whilst shopping you'd be told it wasn't a problem as you were there on co-op business. It was common practice for people to do this and had been for several years.

    coop_pic.jpg

    Here is a pic I took of the site shortly after the PCN was issued. You can see the PPM notice on the post in the middle of the bay (just about). No signage at the entrance to the bay, no road markings and nothing to indicate a change of restrictions.

    site.jpg

    Here's the pic PPM took of my vehicle. This doesn't really add anything other than showing there was another vehicle parked in front of the PPM notice at the time making it even harder to read (you'd pretty much have to stand in the roadway to read it).

    ppm_pic.jpg

    Here's the actual sign. I would class this as 'forbidding' as there is no meaningful offer to park. It's a prohibitory notice using lexical jiggery-pokery to dress itself up as a contract.

    ppm_signage.jpg

    Here the sign from PCM vs Bull which was ruled as 'forbidding'. The key wording is pretty much exactly the same.

    pcm_bull.jpg
  • Are you sure that isn't public highway? Check with your local council.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • BTW, the law isn't about common sense or reasonableness or morality. It's just about applying and interpreting what the law says. Please don't think otherwise, even though it's tempting. Don't look on the judge as a human in that respect, look on him as if he is a law book.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • Are you sure that isn't public highway? Check with your local council.

    It does look like it doesn't it? That's part of my argument.

    I don't actually know for sure, I just presumed no-one would be stupid and reckless enough to pursue private parking charges on a public highway but I'm probably just being naive there.

    I will try and find out - not entirely sure how to go about doing that but will check...
  • I just presumed no-one would be stupid and reckless enough to pursue private parking charges on a public highway
    They do. All the time. There's an active thread on here about Millennium doing just that which you can search for.


    Phone the Highways Department of your local council. They will be able to tell you what's public highway and what's privately owned.
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
  • Are you sure that isn't public highway? Check with your local council.

    Checked - it's not part of the public highway unfortunately, though to all intents and purposes it looks like it.
  • Oh well, worth a shot. Who owns that layby then? Has the PPC got proper landowner authority?
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
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