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  • FIRST POST
    • IhateFines
    • By IhateFines 20th Jun 19, 3:46 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 2Thanks
    IhateFines
    PCN County Court Claim Form
    • #1
    • 20th Jun 19, 3:46 PM
    PCN County Court Claim Form 20th Jun 19 at 3:46 PM
    Hi I am looking for some help i have today recieved a Claim form from the County Court. I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but was not the driver at the time of the PCN notice.

    On the County Court Claim form the issue date is listed as the 17th June 2019. The claimant is Parking Eye Ltd. The particulars of the claim is for monies outstanding from the defendant, as registered keeper, in relation to a parking charge, issues 21/03/2019, for parking on private land in breach of the terms and conditions (the contract). ParkingEye's automated number plate recognition system, monitioring Westcross Shopping Centre, Oldbury - Main, Oldbury Road, B66 1JQ, captured vehicle XXXXXXX entering and leaving the carpark overstaying the max stay time. The signage clearly displayed at te entrance to and throughout the carpark, states that this is private land, is managed by Parking Eye Ltd, and is a max stay site, along with other T&C's by which those who park on site agree to be bound. In accordance with the T&C set out in the signage, the Parking Charge became payable.. Notice under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 has been given under Sch 4, making the keeper liable.

    Prior to this County Claim's form I have received a parking notice reminder for the alleged contravention. I was not the driver on the day of the incident and on the PCN reminder it states "We would like to remind you that, if you were the driver at the time of the parking event you are required to pay or appeal the parking charge". As I was not the driver at the time of the incident why am I being made liable to pay the PCN? As the PCN sent out makes absolutely no reference to the registered keeper being liable for the PCN. I did not make any representation as I did not feel I was required to based on the information provided in the PCN.

    Having read the Newbies post I see I have an option to request an SAR from ParkingEye but am not sure what else I can do. Do I just pay the amount on the Claim Form which is for 175 (Amount claimed 100, 25 court fee and 50 legal representative cost - even though the letters came directly from Parking Eye and no Debt or Solicitor company).
Page 1
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 20th Jun 19, 3:50 PM
    • 13,855 Posts
    • 14,339 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #2
    • 20th Jun 19, 3:50 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Jun 19, 3:50 PM
    Read this

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5972164

    and enlist the support of your MP as they are obviously trying to scam you.

    Nine out of ten of these so called breaches of contract are scams

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

    Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 20th Jun 19, 3:55 PM
    • 7,085 Posts
    • 9,578 Thanks
    waamo
    • #3
    • 20th Jun 19, 3:55 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Jun 19, 3:55 PM
    You are liable because you are the registered keeper and have not named the driver. The Protection of Freedoms Act allows them to hold the registered keeper liable if the driver is unknown.

    The 50 "add on" is the fee for having a solicitor file and submit the claim. This is currently allowed.

    Do you have any kind of defence?
    This space for hire.
    • IhateFines
    • By IhateFines 20th Jun 19, 4:06 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    IhateFines
    • #4
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:06 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:06 PM
    The driver of the car on that date was a family member has is disabled and holds a blue badge. They displayed the blue badge whilst parking and were unable to read the T&C as they are so small. The sign in regards of blue badge holders makes reference to the T&C but they are unreadable. I tried to attach a picture of the sign but as a new user I am unable to.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 20th Jun 19, 4:09 PM
    • 23,323 Posts
    • 29,754 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:09 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:09 PM
    PE are taking you to court as KEEPER same as they did with Barry Beavis for his overstay (he lost in court , 3 times)

    if they adhered to POFA (the law) they dont have to pursue the driver and wont care who the driver was - because YOU are deemed liable for the charge

    if they wish they can take on the legal aspect themselves - in house - which they are doing and have done , they do not have to employ a third party solicitor , hence why they added their 50 legal fee

    as mentioned above, you need some sort of defence , so what defence did you decide you had from the date the first notification arrived months ago about this ticket and why has it remained unpaid ?


    the FIRST NTK that arrived would have had the POFA warning on it if it arrived within 15 days and also asked the RK to name the driver, otherwise they would pursue the RK using POFA (THEY REMOVE THIS WARNING IF IT FAILED TO ARRIVE BY DAY 15)

    so did the first NTK arrive by day 15 ? yes or no ?


    the driver being a BB holder does not exempt them from the rules of the parking , meaning the signage must be sufficient to tell them about the rules about parking as a BB holder, its the EA2010 that may protect this driver, not the BB , the BB is merely an indicator of their protection by the EA2010

    but PE are pursuing you as keeper , not the BB owning driver

    use tinypic to host the picture and add a dead URL to your reply and we will fix the link for you
    Last edited by Redx; 20-06-2019 at 4:15 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • IhateFines
    • By IhateFines 20th Jun 19, 4:26 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    IhateFines
    • #6
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:26 PM
    • #6
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:26 PM
    PE are taking you to court as KEEPER same as they did with Barry Beavis for his overstay (he lost in court , 3 times)

    if they adhered to POFA (the law) they dont have to pursue the driver and wont care who the driver was - because YOU are deemed liable for the charge

    if they wish they can take on the legal aspect themselves - in house - which they are doing and have done , they do not have to employ a third party solicitor , hence why they added their 50 legal fee

    as mentioned above, you need some sort of defence , so what defence did you decide you had from the date the first notification arrived months ago about this ticket and why has it remained unpaid ?


    the FIRST NTK that arrived would have had the POFA warning on it if it arrived within 15 days and also asked the RK to name the driver, otherwise they would pursue the RK using POFA (THEY REMOVE THIS WARNING IF IT FAILED TO ARRIVE BY DAY 15)

    so did the first NTK arrive by day 15 ? yes or no ?


    the driver being a BB holder does not exempt them from the rules of the parking , meaning the signage must be sufficient to tell them about the rules about parking as a BB holder, its the EA2010 that may protect this driver, not the BB , the BB is merely an indicator of their protection by the EA2010

    but PE are pursuing you as keeper , not the BB owning driver

    use tinypic to host the picture and add a dead URL to your reply and we will fix the link for you
    Originally posted by Redx
    You are correct the first NTK they did state POFA as the date of event was 15/03/2019 and it was issued on the 21/03/2019. I seemed to have missed out this information when I received the letter. [IMG]htp://i66.tinypic.com/eqtkq9.png[/IMG] is the signage they display at the car park.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 20th Jun 19, 4:38 PM
    • 23,323 Posts
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    Redx
    • #7
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:38 PM
    • #7
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:38 PM
    been doing this thankless task over 6 years so know a thing or two about it , lol

    here is your signage link for the car park

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=eqtkq9&s=9#.XQu1ZY97lPY

    it is clear that they tell a BB holder to comply with the T & C,s . those T & C,s should be displayed where the disabled spots actually are, so a BB holder can see them without exiting the vehicle

    ideally we could do with seeing those signs at the disabled bays too

    clearly their initial NTK told you as keeper that you could name the driver, but you didnt

    by not doing so their POFA warning stated they would pursue you as keeper, which they are now doing, because they appear to have sent it within the 15 day timeframe and added the POFA warning

    hence why they can and have pursued you as KEEPER for this

    the BB owning driver could have defended this on poor signage and the EA2010, but that isnt open to you as an able bodied keeper (I assume you are able bodied ?)

    its the same if a speeding notification had come through the door to you as keeper, you could name the driver or be taken to mags court as keeper if you fail to name the driver

    so the question asked earlier is still valid

    ie:- WHAT IS YOUR DEFENCE for not paying this invoice ?
    Last edited by Redx; 20-06-2019 at 4:40 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • IhateFines
    • By IhateFines 20th Jun 19, 4:45 PM
    • 7 Posts
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    IhateFines
    • #8
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:45 PM
    • #8
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:45 PM
    I am able bodied. Honestly I read a few different forums sites in regards to private parking fines and generally the idea was that it was best to ignore the letters as they are unlikely to take any further action.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 20th Jun 19, 4:52 PM
    • 23,323 Posts
    • 29,754 Thanks
    Redx
    • #9
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:52 PM
    • #9
    • 20th Jun 19, 4:52 PM
    not true at all , just google BARRY BEAVIS to see how wrong you are

    at this time most people here will not be able to see any defence for you , which would be a legal technicality

    if they stuck to POFA and the NTK warned you about the consequences , then those consequences are exactly what is happening right now and you cannot use the EA2010 and failed to name the driver

    you need to think long and hard about this because your poor research means you are further out of pocket unless you win on a technicality, which are

    NO LANDOWNER CONTRACT
    any BPA CoP failures
    POOR AND INDEQUATE SIGNAGE

    etc

    had you come here and asked when the NTK arrived a few months ago you would have received the expert advice FOC that you needed which wasnt what you have just said in your last reply, NOBODY would have told you to IGNORE because we all know that this would end up in civil court, as it has done

    I think you are on a hiding to nothing at the moment and PE are your worst nightmare since they beat BEAVIS , you are cannon fodder to them and their litigation department

    google his name and see, tthey went to the Supreme Court in London with his case , after he failed in 2 previous courts , I am suprised you know nothing about his landmark case

    you have a tiger by the tail and dont realise it due to poor research


    ps:- I warned this person about PE a few months ago, they didnt listen and so my predictions came true


    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5926933
    Last edited by Redx; 20-06-2019 at 4:55 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • IhateFines
    • By IhateFines 20th Jun 19, 4:58 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    IhateFines
    As it is a claims form if I pay off the outstanding fine I wouldn't get a CCJ would I?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 20th Jun 19, 5:00 PM
    • 15,855 Posts
    • 18,868 Thanks
    KeithP
    On the County Court Claim form the issue date is listed as the 17th June 2019.
    Originally posted by IhateFines
    With a Claim Issue Date of 17th June, you have until Monday 8th July to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

    Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 22nd July 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's over four weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
    1. Print your Defence.
    2. Sign it and date it.
    3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    6. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    7. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
    8. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 20th Jun 19, 5:01 PM
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    • 29,754 Thanks
    Redx
    there was no fine, its always been an invoice (PCN) , PE cannot "fine" anyone at all

    if you pay off the full amount listed on the claim form it wont go to court , there will be no judgement and so there will be no CCJ after 30 days
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • IhateFines
    • By IhateFines 20th Jun 19, 5:10 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    IhateFines
    there was no fine, its always been an invoice (PCN) , PE cannot "fine" anyone at all

    if you pay off the full amount listed on the claim form it wont go to court , there will be no judgement and so there will be no CCJ after 30 days
    Originally posted by Redx
    I have just paid off the PCN. Am I still required to send any of the Court Claim Forms back?
    • Redx
    • By Redx 20th Jun 19, 5:28 PM
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    • 29,754 Thanks
    Redx
    I hope you paid more than the pcn , because they have added legal costs onto it

    its the full claim you needed to pay off, not just the pcn

    I have never had an MCOL N1 claim pack so cannot tell you what to do with it
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • waamo
    • By waamo 20th Jun 19, 5:43 PM
    • 7,085 Posts
    • 9,578 Thanks
    waamo
    I have just paid off the PCN. Am I still required to send any of the Court Claim Forms back?
    Originally posted by IhateFines
    Nooo oh dear. If you ever get another ticket for goodness sake don't rush at things like a bull in a china shop.

    I was going to make some suggestions but that's it now sadly.

    Edit to say if you've paid in full the first thing I would do is ring PE and ask them to withdraw their claim as it's now paid.

    Don't lose sight of dates though. If you sit on your hands the court process will rumble on.
    Last edited by waamo; 20-06-2019 at 5:50 PM.
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Jun 19, 12:59 AM
    • 74,531 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Oh no, this should have been defended!

    Next time, complain IMMEDIATELY to the retail park and Store Managers who would hate to lose your custom, as they now surely will for stinging you like this.

    Parking firms ruin people and they ruin high streets and retail parks.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 21-06-2019 at 9:12 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • IhateFines
    • By IhateFines 21st Jun 19, 4:57 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    IhateFines
    **sorry I should have been more clear I paid the PCN in full with the additional costs (175) which was written on the County Claim letter. I will phone PE today and ask them to withdraw the claim.

    I thought there was nothing that I could do and so paid the fine.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Jun 19, 9:13 AM
    • 74,531 Posts
    • 87,063 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Clearly you still have to complete the defence forms or MCOL box that denies liability because the sum has been paid. No need to phone.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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