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    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 6:25 AM
    • 9,406Posts
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    Martyn1981
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news (last 2 weeks)
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 15, 6:25 AM
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news (last 2 weeks) 9th Jun 15 at 6:25 AM
    MSE Insert:

    We've seen some debate on this thread about the relevance of some posts to the topic.

    To ensure the thread remains on topic for forumites wanting to discuss the latest news we're asking that all posts contain a link to the news you're discussing.

    For the purposes of this thread the "news" needs to be within the last two weeks.

    Back to Martyn1981's original post.

    ---

    I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread for posting general news items that may be of interest.

    PV and the 'Solar in the news' thread attract a lot of interest, so here's a thread for all the other goings on.

    Mart.
    Last edited by Former MSE Andrea; 09-10-2018 at 9:41 AM.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Page 109
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 11th Jun 19, 12:33 AM
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    GreatApe
    Also uk imports are exaggerated to the upside or rather they are not as significant as you would think. Trade is measured in pounds/dollars not in kilograms. If we import a £45,000 BMW and export a £15,000 Vauxhall it looks like we imported 3 x what we exported although it was more or less 1 car or about equal resource wise.

    We also import a lot of high value stuff which has no huge resource cost.

    A 100 gram iphone costs $1,000 which might be offset resource consumption wise by a 5kg pack of $5 export in toilet paper (yes the uk is a toilet paper exporter). So while the headline might look like $1,000 imported $5 exported so we must be importing a lot of embedded energy its not necessarily the case as in this example where we import expensive low mass stuff and export cheap high mass stuff (like chemicals)


    Plus the figures are not too bad. $400 billion exported $600 billion imported so about $200 billion net.
    But we do not destroy everything we import, eg we import about $20 billion more in gold than we export and about $2 billion more in silver than we export and other precious metals too and these are not consumed but a stock of wealth so shouldn't really be seen as part of a 'trade deficit'
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 11th Jun 19, 12:42 AM
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    GreatApe
    The reality is that BEV will not change the face of humanity itself. Not yet.
    Originally posted by Hexane

    Genetic engineering and AI (even just task specific AI) will

    'Humans' in as little as 1-2 generations, if they are survive at all, will be as close to the humans of today as we are to chimps or rats

    This claimitchange debate is pointless. Its people picking nits off each others backs thinking that is important while the species itself will face at least two true existential threats in my lifetime. AI and genetic engineering
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 11th Jun 19, 12:50 AM
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    GreatApe
    Why is the government avoiding subsidy free RE generation rollout, it makes no sense, and has to have deeper reasoning behind it. My belief is that low price CfD's for RE are embarrassing, and undermine their nuclear plans.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Errr..... sure conspiracy theory....or perhaps the fact that we already have most of what we need

    There is no need for more nuclear or solar or tidal and no more should be built

    Already as I type this right now today in this moment the UK is 72% non fossil fuel powered for its grid

    And we have under construction 3.4 GW links to France 1.4GW link to norway and potentially another 2GW link to France to be approved. Plus a 3.2 GW dual reactor under construction.

    So right now, the uk 72% non fossil fuel powered, guess what that figure would be when just that listed stuff which is being built comes online? Well close to 100%

    We dont need to build more solar or biomass or tidal or onshore wind power because we will be very low FF with just finishing what is under construction
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 11th Jun 19, 1:06 AM
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    GreatApe
    I'm pretty sure that a CfD auction with bid caps around the average wholesale price, would work fine. That way, projects would get government support, better finance deals, and a minimum income guarantee, but not add any net burden to the subsidy pot. And this could happen today.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981

    But we are already approaching mostly FF free grid and with what is under construction already we will get even more FF free grid

    Also UK wholesale prices are likely to go down significantly as the 4.8GW of inter connectors under construction come online in the next 1-3 years and the additional ones under consideration comes online in 3-6 years.

    Plus as you will be aware, while yearly average wholesale prices might be £50 (or whatever) now, and cheaper when the interconnectors come online, the new PV/Wind wont be outputting year round. They will mostly be outputting when other PV/Wind is outputting into a depressed wholesale market at those times. So subsidy free for PV or wind is not the year round wholesale price but the high-output of PV/Wind time periods when wholesale prices are much lower.

    Let private individuals and companies build them and sell into the wholesale market and lose their own investments, dont force the government to pay for excess wind/pv which is not needed.
    • pile-o-stone
    • By pile-o-stone 11th Jun 19, 8:35 AM
    • 266 Posts
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    pile-o-stone
    I wish MSE would completely hide posts from users you have placed on your Ignore List.
    5.18 kWp PV systems (3.68 E/W & 1.5 E).
    Solar iBoost+ to two immersion heaters on 300L thermal store.
    Vegan household with 100% composted food waste
    Mini orchard planted and vegetable allotment created.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 11th Jun 19, 10:25 AM
    • 4,940 Posts
    • 6,687 Thanks
    zeupater
    I wish MSE would completely hide posts from users you have placed on your Ignore List.
    Originally posted by pile-o-stone
    Hi

    ...and remove the text from quoted posts from those users on ignore lists ...

    But don't you just feel sorry for those resorting to desparate spin to support fossil fuel & other legacy generation & distribution vested interests to the hilt - it must be a terrible position to be in, a little like wearing intentionally itchy robes & performing near continuous self flagellation .... on second thoughts, maybe we shouldn't feel sorry, just sad! .....

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 11th Jun 19, 12:11 PM
    • 2,687 Posts
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    silverwhistle
    Those posts are a bit like buses, they all come along at once. Mind you, none of them will take you anywhere useful..
    • GreatApe
    • By GreatApe 11th Jun 19, 1:03 PM
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    GreatApe
    But I'd still argue the toss on cost though. That Fabia cost €4000 and I only sold it after 6 years as I was returning to the UK. Another £4000 on my Hyundai i20 which is still going strong after almost 6 years, fully ammortized and no need to change yet. Give it a few more years perhaps, but there is still no EV equivalent at anything near those prices.
    Originally posted by silverwhistle

    EVs have to get to the lowest price points and the most popular car sold in the UK is the Ford Fiesta which can be had for £12,100 brand new

    Arguments of reliability or lower fuel costs do not matter for the first owner who typically keeps the car for 3 years so it is still under warranted and fuel costs of 10p a mile are not important relative to capital cost

    Where EVs shine is if self drive robo fleets could be used for 500,000+ miles then the cheaper fuel starts to add up and the higher capital cost can be amortized over many more miles and the vehicle capital cost can be cheaper because you do the mileage over 5 years
    • sunnykent
    • By sunnykent 11th Jun 19, 3:12 PM
    • 9 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    sunnykent
    Smart Export Guarantee going ahead
    Haven't seen this posted elsewhere - the government has published its response to the SEG consultation and is about to lay the legislation in parliament

    For those of us (or maybe just me?) about to press the button on a new PV installation, this provides some clarity that the exporting options will extend beyond Octopus

    I still can't link, but the consultation response can be found at
    assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/807393/smart-export-guarantee-government-response.pdf
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 11th Jun 19, 3:45 PM
    • 9,406 Posts
    • 14,299 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Haven't seen this posted elsewhere - the government has published its response to the SEG consultation and is about to lay the legislation in parliament

    For those of us (or maybe just me?) about to press the button on a new PV installation, this provides some clarity that the exporting options will extend beyond Octopus

    I still can't link, but the consultation response can be found at
    assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/807393/smart-export-guarantee-government-response.pdf
    Originally posted by sunnykent
    I think a guaranteed 11p/kWh for export to new PV'ers seems fair.

    It's based on level playing fields, and the government's own support for an older technology:

    HPC CfD after 2019 index linking comes to £102/MWh (10.2p/kWh) and leccy distribution incurs a roughly 8% loss from centralised generation.

    So demand side supply should, in a fair and equal world, get 10.2p x 1.08 = 11p/kWh.

    There we are, all sorted, all fair, all level, hard to offer less.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • ASavvyBuyer
    • By ASavvyBuyer 11th Jun 19, 6:43 PM
    • 1,044 Posts
    • 3,080 Thanks
    ASavvyBuyer
    BBC News item on Porto Santo
    Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but there is a interesting story being covered on BBC News today. Using electric vehicles and V2G on the Portuguese island of Porto Santo.

    They are using modified Zoes, which charge in the day on public charge points from renewables (solar and wind), then feed back into the grid overnight to power homes.

    There is enough power retained for the car to still be usable!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-48530488/the-solar-power-charged-electric-cars-making-money
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers. Inst Aug 2015.
    REUK Diverter, Toshiba RAS-10G2KVP-E Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump, Kia Soul EV & 100% Green Electric Tariff.
    • ASavvyBuyer
    • By ASavvyBuyer 11th Jun 19, 6:47 PM
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    • 3,080 Thanks
    ASavvyBuyer
    Haven't seen this posted elsewhere - the government has published its response to the SEG consultation and is about to lay the legislation in parliament

    For those of us (or maybe just me?) about to press the button on a new PV installation, this provides some clarity that the exporting options will extend beyond Octopus

    I still can't link, but the consultation response can be found at
    assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/807393/smart-export-guarantee-government-response.pdf
    Originally posted by sunnykent
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/807393/smart-export-guarantee-government-response.pdf
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers. Inst Aug 2015.
    REUK Diverter, Toshiba RAS-10G2KVP-E Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump, Kia Soul EV & 100% Green Electric Tariff.
    • Exiled Tyke
    • By Exiled Tyke 11th Jun 19, 6:49 PM
    • 363 Posts
    • 982 Thanks
    Exiled Tyke
    Haven't seen this posted elsewhere - the government has published its response to the SEG consultation and is about to lay the legislation in parliament

    For those of us (or maybe just me?) about to press the button on a new PV installation, this provides some clarity that the exporting options will extend beyond Octopus

    I still can't link, but the consultation response can be found at
    assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/807393/smart-export-guarantee-government-response.pdf
    Originally posted by sunnykent

    My question is: can I keep my deemed export FIT payments for my current set up and then get the new export tariff for additional panels I'm planning on adding?
    Install 28th Nov 15, 3.3kW, (11x300LG), SolarEdge, SW. W Yorks.
    Install 2 Sept, 600W ESE
    Solax 6.3kW battery
    • ASavvyBuyer
    • By ASavvyBuyer 11th Jun 19, 7:03 PM
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    ASavvyBuyer
    My question is: can I keep my deemed export FIT payments for my current set up and then get the new export tariff for additional panels I'm planning on adding?
    Originally posted by Exiled Tyke
    I am wondering a similar thing, as I am thinking of changing from deemed export to the Octopus Agile Export, that pays a higher amount most late afternoons. For our west facing panels, that is when they usually produce the most and we can struggle to use the power available.
    I would also like to add more panels on the west and a new system on the east facing roof, if it would be worthwhile; especially with possibly adding another ASHP.
    Rhondda Cynon Taf, 4kWp, W roof, 30° pitch, 16 x 8.33 Eternity 250w E+10 panels, Solar Edge SE4000-16A Inverter + P300 Optimisers. Inst Aug 2015.
    REUK Diverter, Toshiba RAS-10G2KVP-E Ultra High Efficiency Air Conditioner/Heat Pump, Kia Soul EV & 100% Green Electric Tariff.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 12th Jun 19, 12:36 PM
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    • 14,299 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Theresa May commits to net zero UK carbon emissions by 2050

    The commitment, to be made in an amendment to the Climate Change Act laid in parliament on Wednesday, would make the UK the first member of the G7 group of industrialised nations to legislate for net zero emissions, Downing Street said.

    Environmental groups welcomed the goal but expressed disappointment that the plan would allow the UK to achieve it in part through international carbon credits, something Greenpeace said would “shift the burden to developing nations”.
    France proposed net zero emissions legislation this year, while some smaller countries have gone for dates before 2050, such as Finland (2035) and Norway (2030), though the latter allows the buying of carbon offsets.
    The plan was endorsed by the CBI’s head, Carolyn Fairbairn, who said such efforts “can drive UK competitiveness and secure long-term prosperity”.

    She added: “Some sectors will need clear pathways to enable investment in low-carbon technologies, and it is vital that there is cross-government coordination on the policies and regulation needed to deliver a clean future.”

    Downing Street poured scorn last week on Hammond’s warnings, disclosed in a leaked letter, saying the supposed £1tn figure ignored both the economic benefits of action and the costs of not doing anything.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 12th Jun 19, 5:30 PM
    • 2,687 Posts
    • 4,022 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    Yeah, we're all really confident that she'll take action..

    There was an article in The Guardian by Caroline Lucas where I was composing a BTL comment when it closed for comments, drat.

    Some classic statements in there such as nuclear scales faster than RE. Wake me up when HPC comes on stream..

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/12/theresa-may-net-zero-emissions-target-climate-change
    Last edited by silverwhistle; 12-06-2019 at 5:30 PM. Reason: spacing
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 12th Jun 19, 7:11 PM
    • 8,711 Posts
    • 5,449 Thanks
    buglawton
    Conservative govt chucks out new law (Zero net co2 emissions by 2050) that, totally out of character with every administration of the past century, is ambitiously long term in objective.

    Conservative govt supports 3rd Heathrow runway, introduced reduction in EV subsidies and plans increased VAT on solar. Public transport commuters continue to be taxed on the money they have to pay for their work journeys.

    Hypocritical? Surely not.
    News candy? Gotcha.
    Last edited by buglawton; 12-06-2019 at 8:20 PM.
    • pile-o-stone
    • By pile-o-stone 13th Jun 19, 8:28 AM
    • 266 Posts
    • 449 Thanks
    pile-o-stone
    No one will do anything. As we see in France when the Prez put a tax on diesel, people will get up in arms about anything that negatively impacts their lifestyle or increases taxes or bills. The earth is doomed because everyone is too selfish and self absorbed.

    Even people on here and other sustainable/green forums I subscribe to are all about the payback and not about the positive impact of installing green tech.

    I really find it all a bit disappointing
    5.18 kWp PV systems (3.68 E/W & 1.5 E).
    Solar iBoost+ to two immersion heaters on 300L thermal store.
    Vegan household with 100% composted food waste
    Mini orchard planted and vegetable allotment created.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 13th Jun 19, 8:47 AM
    • 9,406 Posts
    • 14,299 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    No one will do anything. As we see in France when the Prez put a tax on diesel, people will get up in arms about anything that negatively impacts their lifestyle or increases taxes or bills. The earth is doomed because everyone is too selfish and self absorbed.

    Even people on here and other sustainable/green forums I subscribe to are all about the payback and not about the positive impact of installing green tech.

    I really find it all a bit disappointing
    Originally posted by pile-o-stone
    Don't worry too much about the payback v's positive impact, a wins a win.

    I used to argue for the positive side of RE etc, although on MSE I tended to skew more to the cost side given the nature of the forum. But now, the payback, or shall we say, economic arguments work in favour of RE, BEV's, insulation etc etc, so even if some folk focus only the economic side, then we still win.

    In fact I'll go further, I really didn't think 'we' would win* when arguing for the 'real' costs of RE v's status quo, but now I'm certain we'll win thanks to the 800lb economics gorilla swapping sides.

    *Win is itself an argumentative result. What we are really aiming for, with the Paris Accord for example, is to lose less bigly. A smaller loss than would otherwise be suffered is all we can now focus on when fighting for a win.
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 13-06-2019 at 9:15 AM.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • pile-o-stone
    • By pile-o-stone 13th Jun 19, 9:06 AM
    • 266 Posts
    • 449 Thanks
    pile-o-stone
    Don't worry too much about the payback v's positive impact, a wins a win.

    I used to argue for the positive side of RE etc, although on MSE I tended to skew more to the cost side given the nature of the forum. But now, the payback, or shall we, economic arguments work in favour of RE, BEV's, insulation etc etc, so even if some folk focus only the economic side, then we still win.

    In fact I'll go further, I really didn't think 'we' would win* when arguing for the 'real' costs of RE v's status quo, but now I'm certain we'll win thanks to the 800lb economics gorilla swapping sides.

    *Win is itself an argumentative result. What we are really aiming for, with the Paris Accord for example, is to lose less bigly. A smaller loss than would otherwise be suffered is all we can now focus on when fighting for a win.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    I'm not convinced, especially with the rise of Trump and others who are pushing a climate change denial program based on an argument that we pay more for Green energy, and who are gaining traction with this argument.

    I watched Cowspiracy last night and even environmentalist like Greenpeace are refusing to tackle the World's biggest polluter - the livestock industry - because of fear f losing corporate sponsorship and getting dragged through the courts by the huge meat industry lobby groups. Livestock farming and it's associated problem with water usage, pollution from their feces creating dead zones in lakes and seas, use of land for growing their feed, destruction of the rainforests to allow them graze is destroying the planet yet everyone conspires to ignore it.

    Instead we are shepherded to look at 'fixes' like installing renewables, when the main problem goes unchecked.
    5.18 kWp PV systems (3.68 E/W & 1.5 E).
    Solar iBoost+ to two immersion heaters on 300L thermal store.
    Vegan household with 100% composted food waste
    Mini orchard planted and vegetable allotment created.
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