NCP - Should I Try to Pay Retrospectively?

Autolycus2000 · 24 February 2017 at 7:38AM

Hi all,

Yesterday my car was parked at a London Underground car park managed by NCP. Like most LU car parks this one uses ANPR and you have the option of paying by machine at the car park or using the Dash Parking app on your phone. I think you can also pay by phone call or text message too.

You can pay anytime up to something like 04:30 am on the day following the parking. So for yesterday's parking the payment could have been made anytime up to 04:30 this morning.

It has just become apparent that the payment that was attempted yesterday using the Dash app did not go through - presumably due to a poor signal or the app crashing or similar.

I'm familiar with how the appeal process works as and when a NtK is received and how to take the case to POPLA if required, but I have a question in the meantime:

Should the driver now phone either NCP or Dash (they have a separate customer services number from NCP) and explain the situation and see if it is possible to pay now for yesterday's parking? Or would doing that make the situation worse - e.g. might it cause NCP to assume I was the driver?

Thanks in advance.

Redx · 24 February 2017 at 9:04AM

they dont know who the driver is normally , anybody can pay for parking , doesnt have to be the driver , it could be the keeper and the keeper may not be using the car

a judge would always expect that an attempt to pay should be made , so the keeper could and should try to pay asap, even if doing so retrospectively , keeping proof of payment

NCP can assume whatever they like , but the fact remains that in court they would have to either prove who was driving so that a judge is more sure than not , or they would have to invoke POFA2012 if its relevant land , which it may not be

so just because somebody has an account to pay for parking does not indicate that they are the driver , they could be an agent , a keeper , the mother of the driver , a third party , the employer kindly paying for an employee to park

they can ASSUME whatever they like , but it wont wash in court , court works on evidence and assumptions have to be backed up by laws and precedents and rulings by other courts or higher courts

many criminals get off scott free because although police may think or assume that they broke the law , PROVING IT is a different matter, even if all the detectives have ASSUMED the person is guilty or did the offence they wont secure a prosecution

I would suspect that POFA2012 does not apply here , that bylaws apply instead

Autolycus2000 · 24 February 2017 at 9:06AM

Thanks. That's pretty much what I was thinking but nice to have it validated by someone else more experienced! :-)
I'll give Dash a bell now.....

The_Deep · 24 February 2017 at 10:48AM

Even if they will not accept late payment over the 'phone, send it anyway by post. They would then struggle to claim that you bilked.

Autolycus2000 · 27 February 2017 at 8:39PM

Well, that was interesting. I rang Dash on Friday and explained the situation. They seemed to be all set to take the retrospective payment but then told me they could only take payment for two days instead of one because the car was still showing as being in the car park (which was not true).

They told me to ring NCP who also said the car was showing as being in the car park. They said normally if that happened it would have been reset when payment was made.

They said they were unable to take payment or that, even if they did, it would be no good as the vehicle registration would already have been passed to the PCN system. They said I'd probably get a PCN but to simply appeal it. Apparently the onus is as much on Dash to prove their system WAS working as it would be on me to prove it wasn't. And so therefore, upon appeal, the PCN would probably be cancelled. Hmmm......

I also asked them to make sure they updated the system to say the car had left the car park as I didn't want to be getting further PCNs on a daily basis. They said they'd do that and call me back to confirm, but I never heard anything more from them. They also suggested I take a photo of the car with a copy of Friday's newspaper next to it to prove it was elsewhere by that time.

So it looks like I'll soon be fighting at least one PCN from them.

Autolycus2000 · 13 March 2017 at 9:35AM

It's now 18 days since the parking incident referred to above and no NtK has been received. And yet I know from the phone call that NCP definitely had a record of the car being in the car park without payment being made.

Isn't the NtK supposed to arrive in 15 days?

My concern now is that they have sent one, it has got lost in the post, and therefore the chance to appeal and get a POPLA code will be lost too.

Does it sometimes happen that NCP don't bother sending an NtK or do it after 15 days (e.g. if not bothering with POFA)?

Umkomaas · 13 March 2017 at 10:03AM

If it arrives after 15 days they cannot pursue the keeper - PoFA protects the keeper. That's good news.

Do you have trouble with your address having lots of letters 'lost in the post'? If you don't, why do you think this is likely to be different?

There's no pattern as to how some PPCs operate - it's totally unregulated, many have admin systems that can't keep up.

I wouldn't be too troubled with non-receipt and I certainly wouldn't be phoning NCP - better you go to their website and go through the motions as if you were to be paying your PCN; that will give you an indication how 'live' your case is. Obviously don't press the 'Pay Now' button!

Coupon-mad · 13 March 2017 at 12:25PM

NCP don't use the POFA anyway so the 14 days isn't relevant to them. But as Umkomaas says, that's good! No keeper liability so do not say who was driving, if a PCN arrives, follow the script for template appeal in the NEWBIES thread.

Autolycus2000 · 15 March 2017 at 11:14AM

Umkomaas wrote: »

Do you have trouble with your address having lots of letters 'lost in the post'? If you don't, why do you think this is likely to be different?

It's quite common for stuff to take a week or two to arrive. Also, other members of the family sometimes empty the postbox when I'm away and then forget to give me the post when I get home!

Umkomaas wrote: »

I wouldn't be too troubled with non-receipt and I certainly wouldn't be phoning NCP - better you go to their website and go through the motions as if you were to be paying your PCN; that will give you an indication how 'live' your case is. Obviously don't press the 'Pay Now' button!

Sadly you can only search on their site with reg number and PCN number - not just with the reg number.

Autolycus2000 · 15 March 2017 at 11:16AM

Coupon-mad wrote: »

NCP don't use the POFA anyway so the 14 days isn't relevant to them. But as Umkomaas says, that's good! No keeper liability so do not say who was driving, if a PCN arrives, follow the script for template appeal in the NEWBIES thread.

So presumably my worst case scenario is that they *have* sent a PCN which I haven't received, meaning I miss the chance to kill it at POPLA, and so then have to fight off the debt collector letters until such time as they give up.

Meanwhile the six months limit for byelaws offences is ticking away nicely.....

Coupon-mad · 15 March 2017 at 4:59PM

have to fight off the debt collector letters

Well only in that they take up space. Ignore them, as we all do (I have).

NCP - Should I Try to Pay Retrospectively?

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