urgent help re debt collection

hi all gutted at having to post about this again but here goes.
Today oh has recieved a second notice from ARCeurope through the door stating:
dear x
we refer to our previous letter & note there has been no resolution in this matter to date. The above balance therefore remains owing to our client & we should inform you on clearing the balance will lift the limitations the client has applied so you can continue using your paypal account. You will then be able to close your paypal account, add or remove funding sources, send or recieve money.

what will happen next?
although our first letter confirmed our genuine intention to help you find a solution to settle your liability for this debt, we will be unable to do so if you do not let us help you. We therefore suggest it would be in your benefit to contuct us within the next 14 days on the above number & ask to speak to a member of the payment resolution team.

what should i do next?
you can make a secure payment ot use 24 hours a day with your debit or credit card by visiting our website or by calling our automated payment hotline. For full payment dtails please see the back on this letter. Alternatively, please contact a dedicated payment resolution team member within 14 days from the date of this letter to dicuss the balance on your account, You may also contact one of the free debt advice organisations referred to on the reverse of this letter. Your sincerely aRC (Europe) LTD


after the first letter oh was in contact with paypal who advised there were no limitations or debt on the paypal account, in fact a transaction had never been made. Paypal OH then contact ARC europe who said they would investigate & get back in touch. The did not, until now receiving this notice. An email was also sent to ARC europe suggesting they go back to the client & resolve with them as to our knowlege there was so debt on the account. however they never responeded. Clarification was also tried to be sought from both arc & paypal further detials on the alleged debt however this was not provided by either company.

see initial thread here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6006822

I am at a total loss as to what to do. The balance isnt much BUT that's not the point. If we are to pay alleged debt & by doing so accepting liability then I want to know in relation to what transactions & surely we have a right to know?
seeking legal advice would probably cost more fees that the actual debt owed so seems counter productive BUT if we just pay than that's accepting liability & i don't believe OH is liable or at least it has not been made clear how. After all if oh accepts liability & pays this just to get it out the way then who's so say there wont be another bill down the line but this time substantially more?

advice is much appreciated.
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Comments

  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 28,711
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    edited 12 August 2019 at 4:53PM
    Hi,


    Yes I remember your previous post, and the advice remains the same, as I said previously, ARC Europe are just acting on behalf of PayPal, they do not own this debt, so cannot enforce a debt they do not own, they can work through their list of standard computer generated threat letters all they want, there is nothing they can do.

    Their letter suggests you have an outstanding PayPal balance, PayPal say your clean, so I wouldn`t worry, ARC can say or do what they like, its of no concern to you, its between them and PayPal to sort out.

    Having said that, the only way to call them off is to send a written complaint to PayPal, but don`t expect a swift resoloution, as they have approx 150,000 outstanding complaints at present, still to be resolved.
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • sourcrates wrote: »
    Hi,


    Yes I remember your previous post, and the advice remains the same, as I said previously, ARC Europe are just acting on behalf of PayPal, they do not own this debt, so cannot enforce a debt they do not own, they can work through their list of standard computer generated threat letters all they want, there is nothing they can do.

    Their letter suggests you have an outstanding PayPal balance, PayPal say your clean, so I wouldn`t worry, ARC can say or do what they like, its of no concern to you, its between them and PayPal to sort out.

    Having said that, the only way to call them off is to send a written complaint to PayPal, but don`t expect a swift resoloution, as they have approx 150,000 outstanding complaints at present, still to be resolved.
    but they can enforce it with paypals instruction to do so?
    where can i find a way to email paypal? Last time i could only message them through paypal, i would rather email directly.
    I want some sort of written correspondence from either paypal or ARC that the debt is not owed.
    Either that or they (paypal) provide proof to OH details of the transactions relating to alleged debt so that OH can either identify them & take responsibility for them or report them as fraudulent transactions. Legally, doesnt OH have a right to these details? I mean surely a comany can't just say you have debt to us but not tell you what that debt is in relation to or when it was accrued?

    my concern is that someone perhaps the person who stole the card details originally, has created a paypal account using OH's name & address but a separate email address & the debt is relating to that account. We did ask paypal identify which account the debt was in relation to but they stated they could not do that due to data protection & could only confirm there was no records of debt on OH paypal account (the one they have with there email) ...I just think somewhere there may be a paypal account in OH name with address that might have debt on it, it's trying to identify that account & prove just bc it's OH name on it, it's not actually OH account & is in fact someone committing fraud.
  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 28,711
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    No they can’t enforce anything, PayPal never take legal action in the Uk.
    If you have concerns, write to PayPal and get then to look into your issues.

    ARC can be ignored, they are only acting on PayPal’s behalf.
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • sourcrates wrote: »
    No they can’t enforce anything, PayPal never take legal action in the Uk.
    If you have concerns, write to PayPal and get then to look into your issues.

    ARC can be ignored, they are only acting on PayPal’s behalf.

    do you know a more helpful email address for paypal i could write to then as previously I couldn't find one & had to contact them using the message section in paypal it'self. I'd rather email them directly. Frustratingly they said we would need to phone them for such issues as they can't be resolved over mail. Obviously I would want written proof of the conversation hence preference to email.

    Also i'll ask again -wouldn't OH have a legal right to know the transactions the debt relates to & the dates of these transactions/timescale in which the debt was accrued? I mean surely a company can't just say "you owe us £X" but not provide any further details.

    My other qualm is that the letter states if the debt is paid this would lift limitations placed on the account. Well given we do not believe this to be OH's account, i'd rather limitation remain on the account bc if they are lifted the fraudster can continue making more transactions!!
  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 28,711
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    edited 13 August 2019 at 3:43PM
    Debts must be proved when evidence is asked for, provit letter is the way to achieve this.
    I don’t have contact details for them, they are notorious in there automated generic responses, and do not deal well with complaints.

    You are not alone in having issues with them, your best plan may be to ignore them for now, because if the account is fraudulent, the last thing you want are the restrictions removed.
    You may want to try speaking to the financial ombudsman service on there customer service number displayed on their website, and voice your concerns to them.
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • sourcrates wrote: »
    Debts must be proved when evidence is asked for, provit letter is the way to achieve this.
    I don’t have contact details for them, they are notorious in there automated generic responses, and do not deal well with complaints.

    You are not alone in having issues with them, your best plan may be to ignore them for now, because if the account is fraudulent, the last thing you want are the restrictions removed.
    You may want to try speaking to the financial ombudsman service on there customer service number displayed on their website, and voice your concerns to them.
    thank you i will look into provit letter & financial ombudsman.
    does the provit letter get sent to paypal or arc?

    also couple of other questions whilst the debt is still waiting to be settled & currently in OH's name
    1 - does it affect their credit score?
    2 - can it accrue interest?
  • sourcrates
    sourcrates Posts: 28,711
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    No, PayPal does not report to your credit file unless you have one of their credit products.

    Interest can only be added if the original agreement you had with them allows it.
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free wannabe, Credit file and ratings, and Bankruptcy and living with it boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.For free non-judgemental debt advice, contact either Stepchange, National Debtline, or CitizensAdviceBureaux.Link to SOA Calculator- https://www.stoozing.com/soa.php The "provit letter" is here-https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2607247/letter-when-you-know-nothing-about-about-the-debt-aka-prove-it-letter
  • sourcrates wrote: »
    No, PayPal does not report to your credit file unless you have one of their credit products.

    Interest can only be added if the original agreement you had with them allows it.

    based on my understanding of how paypal works, you make a payment online using paypal, which takes the payment from your paypal balance (if any) or from the linked debit/credit card account. If there are insufficient funds then the payment would not go through.
    Which is how i'm confused as to how debt could have accrued on a paypal account, other than using the credit option, as wouldn't any payments fail if there were insufficient funds?
    Unless, as explained previously, there were fraudlent transactions on OH bank account appearing on statement as PAYPAL"xyz" (the confusion comes in as these transactions don't appear on paypal). Could it be that whoever was making these fraudlent transactions made some via paypal but by the time pp tried to take the money, OH's card had already been cancelled?

    As we don't believe OH is in person responsible for the debt, then it's hard to know what the original agreement said as we believe this was taken out by someone else but using oH details.

    i think this could be a case of identity theft.
  • Thanos88
    Thanos88 Posts: 1 Newbie
    edited 14 August 2019 at 12:25PM
    sourcrates wrote: »
    Debts must be proved when evidence is asked for, provit letter is the way to achieve this.


    May I ask, is there a time limitation for the debt collector to prove you owe the debt from the date this is requested?


    if so, must they cease chasing the alleged debt?


    does it apply to both a CCA and SA?

    Thanks
  • sourcrates wrote: »
    No, PayPal does not report to your credit file unless you have one of their credit products.

    Interest can only be added if the original agreement you had with them allows it.
    HI just to update we have today received a letter from a DCA in OH's home country relating to an unpaid mobile phone bill.
    It now seems pretty certain that someone out there is using OHs details to set up a variety of accounts with various companies globally.
    This is getting out of hand as we are now receiving letter's from DCA's internationally! At what point will someone take action or investigate?
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