Claiming against Norwegian Airlines

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  • We were booked on a norwegian flight that was delayed as when they went to pull away from the gate they discovered two flat tyres.
    At 5 hours delay, the flight was cancelled and I left the airport having not been offered any refreshments.
    At this point I contacted Norwegian for compensation.
    At 7.5 hours the flight was reinstated and eventually left with a 910 minute delay.
    As the flight was for a funeral which I would have missed with the new flight time, I did not take this flight.
    Norwegian have refunded the flight cost less the credit card fee, but are refusing to pay any compensation as they claim that this was beyond their control. They have said the obligations will be limited or terminated in the event that a delay is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
    I have a hotel bill and insurance, and the credit card fee that I am out of pocket.
    Is this worth taking further.
  • Froggitt
    Froggitt Posts: 5,904 Forumite
    Yes. Technical problems like flat tyres are not extraordinary circumstances beyond their control. An engine recall by Rolls Royce or planes of a certain type grounded due to a crash are extraordinary circumstances.

    Go direct to the CAA now, or whoever is Ombudsmanning for Norwegian these days.

    PS Not sure which if any rules do not apply as you didnt take the flight.
    illegitimi non carborundum
  • JPears
    JPears Posts: 5,086 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    Froggitt wrote: »
    Yes. Technical problems like flat tyres are not extraordinary circumstances beyond their control. An engine recall by Rolls Royce or planes of a certain type grounded due to a crash are extraordinary circumstances.

    Go direct to the CAA now, or whoever is Ombudsmanning for Norwegian these days.

    PS Not sure which if any rules do not apply as you didnt take the flight.
    If the flight is delayed for more than 5 hours (or cancelled) you are entitled to both a refund (to make alternative arrangments) and compensation.
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  • I wonder if anyone can help me here:

    My niece was booked on Norwegian flight from JFK to LGW. To cut a long story short the delay was in excess of 4 hrs. When I claimed from Norwegian I got the following reply:
    "Unfortunately, Norwegian flight DY7016 (JFK-LGW) 16.01.2017 was delayed by 4 hours and 50 minutes. This disruption was caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken*.
    On behalf of Norwegian I apologize that the original aircraft did not operate on your recent flight with us. A change of aircraft was needed in order to avoid cancellation of this departure. Changes in aircraft type are common in aviation and they are typically performed to overcome unforeseen technical or operational events.

    All airlines are obligated to transport the passenger from A to B according to the agreement between airline and passenger, and this obligation was fulfilled. Aircraft type is not a part of the transport agreement and in this case we had to change the aircraft type to be able to fulfil our obligations. Aircraft change does not trigger any right to compensation for affected passengers.

    Although we respect your request for compensation, we’re unable to honour your claim as your flight was delayed due to extraordinary circumstances. This is in accordance with the European Court of Justice Verdict C-549/07 Wallentin-Hermann."

    Then they give the reason for the delay:
    Norwegian flight: DY7016 (JFK-LGW) 16.01.2017
    Disruption type: Delayed
    Delay time: 4 hours and 50 minutes
    Reason for disruption: This delay was caused by an earlier disruption within our network that had a direct effect on this flight. The original flight was disrupted due to a manufacturing defect
    .
    Any suggestion how to respond? My niece lives in the USA so can't go to a US court, what are her options?
  • Tyzap
    Tyzap Posts: 2,112 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited 8 February 2017 at 11:34PM
    Hi Symphony63,

    It sounds to me like her original aircraft broke down and it was replaced by another, which caused a delay of 4h50m.

    That is not an extraordinary circumstance, they are misleading you. Their letter is full of utter rubbish. She is due compensation.

    Google 'Vaubans guide' and have a good read for further information.

    Good luck
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
  • Froggitt
    Froggitt Posts: 5,904 Forumite
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ what he says
    illegitimi non carborundum
  • Froggitt
    Froggitt Posts: 5,904 Forumite
    http://www.bottonline.co.uk/flight-delay-compensation/claim-guides/what-are-extraordinary-circumstances

    What Are Extraordinary Circumstances
    The term ‘extraordinary circumstances’ applies to a number of scenarios where the delay/cancellation was caused by something out of the ordinary; things like:
    • Acts of terrorism or sabotage
    • Security risks
    • Extreme weather conditions e.g. volcanic ash cloud
    • Political or civil unrest
    • Hidden manufacturing defects
    • Industrial action (strikes unrelated to the airline such as baggage handlers or air traffic control)

    What Are NOT extraordinary circumstances?
    If your long delay was caused by one of the following, you should be entitled to compensation according to EU law:
    • Issues with airline staff e.g. crew turning up late or understaffing
    • Bad weather affecting a previous flight, causing your flight to be delayed
    • Denied boarding due to the flight being overbooked
    • Technical problems with the aircraft (except hidden manufacturing defects or problems caused by sabotage)

    Sounds to me like they are now reclassifying technical problems as manufacturing defects. I'm sure I read that a court deemed that to be classified as a manufacturer defect, the aircraft type or part had to be recalled, e.g. like when the A380 engine blew up they had to recall all the engines to have a pipe replaced.

    Escalate to CAA or whoever their ombudsman is now, once you have their final deadlock letter.
    illegitimi non carborundum
  • This is the reply I drafted to Norwegian. Please advise if it is OK
    I am in receipt of your reply but your reply is utter rubbish.

    1. Disruptions caused by mechanical issues are NOT extraordinary circumstances as per European Court of Justice Verdict C-549/07 Wallentin-Hermann paragraph 25
    "25 Consequently, technical problems which come to light during maintenance of aircraft or on account of failure to carry out such maintenance cannot constitute, in themselves, ‘extraordinary circumstances’ under Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004"

    2. Disruptions not directly affecting the actual flight are not considered extraordinary circumstances as per European Court of Justice Verdict C-549/07 Wallentin-Hermann paragraph 23
    " 23 Although the Community legislature included in that list ‘unexpected flight safety shortcomings’ and although a technical problem in an aircraft may be amongst such shortcomings, the fact remains that the circumstances surrounding such an event can be characterised as ‘extraordinary’ within the meaning of Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 only if they relate to an event which, like those listed in recital 14 in the preamble to that regulation, is not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and is beyond the actual control of that carrier on account of its nature or origin"

    3. Also, it is up to the airline, in this case Norwegian, to proof that they took all reasonable measures to minimise the disruption, as per European Court of Justice Verdict C-549/07 Wallentin-Hermann paragraph 40
    40 It follows that, since not all extraordinary circumstances confer exemption, the onus is on the party seeking to rely on them to establish, in addition, that they could not on any view have been avoided by measures appropriate to the situation, that is to say by measures which, at the time those extraordinary circumstances arise, meet, inter alia, conditions which are technically and economically viable for the air carrier concerned

    4. There is another requirementin the same judgement by the European Court of Justice Verdict C-549/07 Wallentin-Hermann paragraph 41, for the airline to have to demonstrate that
    41That party must establish that, even if it had deployed all its resources in terms of staff or equipment and the financial means at its disposal, it would clearly not have been able – unless it had made intolerable sacrifices in the light of the capacities of its undertaking at the relevant time – to prevent the extraordinary circumstances with which it was confronted from leading to the cancellation of the flight.

    5. The first message notifying me that the flight will be disrupted was received Sunday 15 Jan 2017 @ 03:25, that is some 43 hours before the flight was due to depart. Should it have been such a mechanical problem that it could be classed as an ‘extraordinary circumstances’ Norwegian had ample time to arrange an alternative plane or make other arrangements to transport their passengers to their destination. Not doing so is entirely an operational decision and is entirely within Norwegian’s control

    6. I therefore do not accept your reply and expect you to honour your obligation under EU regulation 261/2004 and settle this matter within 14 days of this email. The compensation I am seeking is 600 Euros.

    7. Should you not settle this matter within 14 days of this email I reserve the right to issue legal proceedings without giving you further notice.

    I'm sorry if it's a bit long. Your input would be appreciated.
  • Tyzap
    Tyzap Posts: 2,112 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Hi Symphony63,

    I would maybe start with a paragraph along the lines of...

    I disagree with your interpretation and understanding of EC regulation 261/2004, which you clearly do not understand, for the following reasons.

    I would also end with the assertion that you WILL take then to court etc

    Overall it seems a good reply, imo.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
  • Froggitt
    Froggitt Posts: 5,904 Forumite
    Yup its a good letter.
    illegitimi non carborundum
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