What is the future of the forum after we join the MoneySupermarket group?

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  • Bitsy_Beans
    Bitsy_Beans Posts: 9,640 Forumite
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    I'm with Fifer, I too find it hard to believe that most forumites don't use the main site. Marley & I are known to be regulars in the forum, but in our personal life we make frequent reference to the guidance on the main site - how to seek and obtain the best utility deals, insurance quotes, how to check credit references, and of course the deals & vouchers. Are there really people who only come here to chat? *insert confused smiley*


    <holds hand up> that would be me :D when I first discovered MSE I used the main site and then discovered the forums. I never, ever use the main site now.


    Good luck to you Martin :D I personally don't see all the fuss. I've been able use a forum, for free, which has benefitted myself and my family. If Martin had never started it I doubt we would be living as we do now.
    I have a gift for enraging people, but if I ever bore you it'll be with a knife :D Louise Brooks
    All will be well in the end. If it's not well, it's not the end.
    Be humble for you are made of earth. Be noble for you are made of stars
  • StaffsSW
    StaffsSW Posts: 5,788 Forumite
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    edited 3 June 2012 at 7:24PM
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    MSE_Martin wrote: »
    • While regular forumites are only a small fraction of site users, we still care!

      The truth is very few regular forum users ever venture over to the main site (though you’re 10 times as vocal :) ) and this deal is focused on the main site.

      The forum is free and will remain so, even though it is a large net cost to the rest of the site. Yet we’ve ensured the forum is still going to be treated with the reverence it's due going forward, I’m very proud of it and we all want to keep developing it and trying to make it easier to use, and encourage more people to it.

    Martin

    But MSM claim in their press release that
    According to Google Analytics, the MoneySavingExpert website attracted approximately 39 million unique visitors and approximately 277 million page impressions in the year ended 31 October 2011

    Are you trying to tell us that this figure excludes the forum users and their subsequent page impressions?!

    And in the same press release, why have MSM made this point about their strategy if you are telling us that "This isn't about getting us to link to their comparisons", yet MSM say...
    Combination supports and enhances MoneySupermarket.com's strategy through:
    o Enhancing MoneySupermarket.com's brand and user content
    o Growing MoneySupermarket.com's direct-to-site revenues and improving MoneySupermarket.com's customer experience

    And
    As a shareholder of MoneySupermarket.com, it is intended that Martin Lewis's interests and those of the Group will be aligned.

    Is it really possible to be fully independent, yet aligned...?
    <--- Nothing to see here - move along --->
  • MSE_Martin
    MSE_Martin Posts: 8,272 Money Saving Expert
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    edited 3 June 2012 at 7:44PM
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    Thanks for some of the kind comments above, now let me answer some questions

    1 Will there be adverts?

    Will the site start having "google style adverts on it" - no please dont worry as you'll see in the Editorial Code, no one can purchase ad space on here. There won't be any ads.

    Please do read the editorial code it answers all these questions

    2. Will the Arms and Discussion time disappear?

    No and can't imagine why you'd think they would.

    No need to worry, again its covered in the Ediorial Code taht states the site will operate consistent with how it works right now - and that's all part of what makes the forum work

    3. What else will be changing in the forum?

    Let me reiterate the key point from my original post - the forum WONT CHANGE!

    4. How watertight is the Editorial Code.

    Let me assure you the majority of the negotiation was about ensuring the Editorial Code was watertight.

    Any major breach leads to a multi-million pound penalty clause. That wasn't because I think MSM want to breach it, but I wanted to ensure prevention in all eventualities, eg the unlikely event of change of managment there.

    The worries you come up with are the same ones as I had in doing this. That's why I've spent over a million pounds of the deal in legal fees to ensure there are no holes in this.

    Remember I didnt have to get an Editorial Code, I could've said "it'll all be fine".

    Yet we're now locked in to a very public code of how we will work, that's deliberate. This isn't a normal business as some have used analogies - we're highly scrutinised by the press who I am sure would love to catch us out - and even more highly scrutinised by our forum users.

    And remember of all the places I sold to, its not 'barclays' or 'lloyds' or 'Wonga' its a price comparison site that I suspect many of you have use anyway.

    As for those who've been in buy-outs where things change. They tend not to happen where the buyer is very very keen for the previous managment to stay on board and associated with the company in the way they want me to be.

    4. Will it become an "advert arm for MSM".

    Again please read the Editorial Code. There is absolutely no favouritism here, MSM is only included where merited.

    We have relationships with their competitors too - other comparison sites when they're better and they're a big part of the site continuing to work - do you really think they'd stand for it, never mind our users.

    5. How come MSM says improve 'direct to site revenues' if no favouritism.

    Good question. That means people who come to them (and us once we're in teh group) and transact without going via Google, as Google is launching its own comparison.

    The main relationship MSE has with MSM is they are are key provider of links to product providers (the affiliate links with the *) not to their own site.

    You dont see that they're the provider, as its irrelevant as you get to the same page on the product providers site. This is the mainstay of our relationship with MSM - not about linking to their actual comparisons.

    This deal is about them securing that provider of links revenue and using their technology expertise to bring more people to this site - an easy win onas we've a lot to learn on that side of things. That's the key driver of this, not about us suddenly using their tools for everything.

    6. The "90% of info comes from the forum anyway".

    That is absolute tosh and hugely insulting to my team. The forum is great, but it ain't close to what we're doing and the amount of checking, researching, analysing, tool building, writing, rewriting, rewriting again that we do.

    It does often provide us with good case studies and the odd good idea or tip - and we're very greatful (as does faccebook and twitter) and the wow deals feed.

    Yet it does exactly the same for hundreds of journalists - we dont have any special access to the forum. I know many who trawl here daily for stories - generating a lot more than we do from it - because this is an unparralleled resource for human interest stories (which isnt our style)

    The only difference is we pay to keep it free, for a lawyer to deal with the 100s of legal letters we get a year with threats to sue us over content, that we fight off, for the servers, for a dedicated developer, and forum manager and team.

    My team and I work incredibly hard to produce guides, daily updated articles, product analysis, mental health booklets, scores of tools, images, weekly email and more. I'm not doing the forum down, I love it, but its far from the engine room of the MSE main site.

    7. The forums contibution.

    The forum is hugely important to me and I'm very proud of it.

    Yet (and we've tried) it is not a huge driver of traffic to the main site, and has an enormous bounce rate (ie people come from google and leave within seconds) and is a huge cost sink.

    However it is an important entity in its own right. I've always ensured that even though its never been close to covering its costs (and even with skimlinks is very far from it) its always been resourced and cherished.

    And even though some of the comments I've read in here may tempt me not too - the forum is too great a resource for consumers to allow anything to interfere with that. I wont allow it to happen and I know MSM don't want it to happen either.

    ______________________

    I hope i've answered your questions. This really is a non-issue in terms of the forum (and mostly for the main site too except we are hoping for much improved navigation and tools)

    Yet some people will not believe it, and want to see the worst. I can't change that, but I can ask that you react to what happens, not to what you predict happens.

    Again the proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in the forum discussion about whether people think it'll taste nice or not (apologies for the stretched analogy)

    Martin

    PS As for people making nasty remarks about my wife, nasty remarks about anyone aren't welcome on this forum. Thankfully I haven't seen them, but thank you to those who have reported them. I consider them to be a "request to leave the site" and I'm sure my forum team will grant that request
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.
    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.
    Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
  • marvin
    marvin Posts: 2,185 Forumite
    Combo Breaker First Post First Anniversary I've been Money Tipped!
    edited 3 June 2012 at 8:18PM
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    coupleuk wrote: »
    BUT, once things like "google-ads" start appearing then the independance has gone - and I will be off too.

    You will notice from the official announcement that they quote Google Analytics. I suspect in one form or another google adds already run and have been for a while.

    I have posted elsewhere I think it is possible to alter the Imutual site slightly to be the consumer owned and consumer run site.

    It is 90% owned by the users, it already exists, it has a forum (posting on which gives the users shares in the company).

    I do not work for or have any connection with Imutual other than being an occasional user.

    Just seems to me as a logical easy fix.
    I started with nothing and I am proud to say I still have most of it left.
  • PipneyJane
    PipneyJane Posts: 4,069 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post I've been Money Tipped!
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    Thank you Martin for creating this site and the forums. I hope MSM live up to your trust in them far beyond the 3 years. In the meantime, I'll still be here BUT if they sack you - I'm walking.

    Congratulations on the baby and best wishes to you and your family.
    "Be the type of woman that when you get out of bed in the morning, the devil says 'Oh crap. She's up.' "

    It ain’t what you do, it’s the way that you do it - that’s what gets results!


    2024 Fashion on the Ration Challenge 66 coupons, 0 spent.
  • DelBoyPhil
    DelBoyPhil Posts: 875 Forumite
    edited 3 June 2012 at 8:07PM
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    The worries you come up with are the same ones as I had in doing this. That's why I've spent over a million pounds of the deal in legal fees to ensure there are no holes in this.

    How long has this been in the pipe work?
    4. How watertight is the Editorial Code.

    Let me assure you the majority of the negotiation was about ensuring the Editorial Code was watertight.

    Any major breach leads to a multi-million pound penalty clause. That wasn't because I think MSM want to breach it, but I wanted to ensure prevention in all eventualities, eg the unlikely event of change of managment there.

    The worries you come up with are the same ones as I had in doing this. That's why I've spent over a million pounds of the deal in legal fees to ensure there are no holes in this.

    Remember I didnt have to get an Editorial Code, I could've said "it'll all be fine".

    Yet we're now locked in to a very public code of how we will work, that's deliberate. This isn't a normal business as some have used analogies - we're highly scrutinised by the press who I am sure would love to catch us out - and even more highly scrutinised by our forum users.

    And remember of all the places I sold to, its not 'barclays' or 'lloyds' or 'Wonga' its a price comparison site that I suspect many of you have use anyway.

    As for those who've been in buy-outs where things change. They tend not to happen where the buyer is very very keen for the previous managment to stay on board and associated with the company in the way they want me to be.

    You missing the point, They own the site once they paid you for it. The thing can be as tight as you want. If they want to do it they will. You may have to leave but they can.
    6. The "90% of info comes from the forum anyway".

    That is absolute tosh and hugely insulting to my team. The forum is great, but it ain't close to what we're doing and the amount of checking, researching, analysing, tool building, writing, rewriting, rewriting again that we do.

    It does often provide us with good case studies and the odd good idea or tip - and we're very greatful (as does faccebook and twitter) and the wow deals feed.

    Yet it does exactly the same for hundreds of journalists - we dont have any special access to the forum. I know many who trawl here daily for stories - generating a lot more than we do from it - because this is an unparralleled resource for human interest stories (which isnt our style)

    The only difference is we pay to keep it free, for a lawyer to deal with the 100s of legal letters we get a year with threats to sue us over content, that we fight off, for the servers, for a dedicated developer, and forum manager and team.

    My team and I work incredibly hard to produce guides, daily updated articles, product analysis, mental health booklets, scores of tools, images, weekly email and more. I'm not doing the forum down, I love it, but its far from the engine room of the MSE main site.

    You have to admit a lot of the deals in your newsletter are from members posts on THIS forum?

    When I said about the 90% this was for the deals, Not the daily storys etc. I should have made that more clearer.
    PS As for people making nasty remarks about my wife, nasty remarks about anyone aren't welcome on this forum. Thankfully I haven't seen them, but thank you to those who have reported them. I consider them to be a "request to leave the site" and I'm sure my forum team will grant that request

    Not a nice thing to write, I have not noticed them, I googled your wife and she is h.o.t :) Im sure she was once on pricedrop or biduptv lol
  • DelBoyPhil
    DelBoyPhil Posts: 875 Forumite
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    marvin wrote: »
    Sorry thats a total confusion. Google analytics is the tool almost every site uses to monitor its traffic. it is nothing to do with google ad words. Please don't scare monger about such things when you're basing them on such incorrect info.

    I noticed your post was edited by martin.. what was removed?
  • MSE_Martin
    MSE_Martin Posts: 8,272 Money Saving Expert
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    Dear Marvin

    I realise I edited your post above, I had thought I'd clicked reply but must've hit the wrong butto. I've tried to reinstate it but it has gone. My apologies I only realised by seeing the post above. I will PM you too

    Your post was suggesting people move to another forum, I of course think thats a very strange thing to do, but you are free to say it if you want to so please repost. As Im sure you can see, the last thing we're trying to do is censor discussion on this

    Sorry

    martin
    Martin Lewis, Money Saving Expert.
    Please note, answers don't constitute financial advice, it is based on generalised journalistic research. Always ensure any decision is made with regards to your own individual circumstance.
    Don't miss out on urgent MoneySaving, get my weekly e-mail at www.moneysavingexpert.com/tips.
    Debt-Free Wannabee Official Nerd Club: (Honorary) Members number 000
  • mynameistallulah
    mynameistallulah Posts: 2,238 Forumite
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    Can I ask then why you keep coming back to join the "flock" :)

    The people I was referring to are those that take Martin's word as gospel, and don't bother to think for themselves. Several people have posted that they "trust" Martin and will continue to do so - why would you trust a journalist that has proven his interest in helping people to be financially motivated?
  • DelBoyPhil
    DelBoyPhil Posts: 875 Forumite
    edited 3 June 2012 at 8:12PM
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    The people I was referring to are those that take Martin's word as gospel, and don't bother to think for themselves. Several people have posted that they "trust" Martin and will continue to do so - why would you trust a journalist that has proven his interest in helping people to be financially motivated?

    This is totally true. :)

    However
    Again the proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in the forum discussion about whether people think it'll taste nice or not (apologies for the stretched analogy)

    Ill keep you to that and I guess time will tell. Enjoy your millions while you crack on about all the money issues. I personally cant take anything you say any more as passion..
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