Calling time on PIP

bspm · 18 March 2017 at 1:01PM

NeilCr wrote: »

He hasn't got long Muttley. He's already two weeks in and he has got his AA application submitted. Unfortunately, his usual prevaricating has likely stymied any chance of getting help which he clearly needs

I am pretty much inclined to the view that whatever is said on the MR will make little difference. He scored zero points and unless there is something on the PIP2 form which points to serious issues the fact that he signed the form having taken it home won't help

And, of course, if he then puts in a coherent and cogent MR it would go against the "I didn't understand the form it's all the nasty DWP man's fault" argument

I'd tend to the view that he does (depending on whether he has changed his mind again about giving up on PIP) an MR along the lines of what you have said and then[/B] seek advice on the appeal [

But PLEASE do not seek advice on here, I don't have enough hours in the day to decipher your differing stories.

rockingbilly · 18 March 2017 at 1:42PM

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Well I think some of this has been covered already. Your DLA and ESA files you can probably assume they never bothered looking at... forget them unless there is evidence within those claims relevant to your PIP claim. You already have their explanation for their decision... it isn't sophisticated and never will be... they've gone through the activities and stated why they've awarded the descriptors they have...that is in effect their statement of reasons.
Yes you are right. I have this weekend to get to grips with this. It's going to be bloody hard work having to fight my natural reaction to just give in to re-affirm that I am useless when it comes to having to detail and explain the difficulties I face day in day out. The evidence that was contained within the old ESA and DLA claims is part of what the DWP have copied for me so I should move on.

Yes it sounds like they've looked at the PIP2 and determined you are not claiming to have significant problems sufficient to score regarding the descriptors. I would put in a reconsideration request stating that due to running out of time and failing to get appointment with x or y you approached z and they hastily completed the form which you had to send off swiftly. State you are now going to go into greater detail regarding your problems and explain why their decision is wrong and which descriptors apply. I figure it will be an up hill battle... supply any supporting evidence and refer to it in reconsideration letter... recommend perhaps that they carry out a face to face disability assessment (if they do not then it may play well with a tribunal in that you'll have little to contest 'from them'.. and if they do it'll offer you chance to get primary evidence you qualify for PIP)... and do it within the month you have. You've little to lose... they might not change decision but at least you'll have your facts and arguments on the table along with simple explanation for poor PIP2 submission... and then you will be able to appeal where anything could happen... most likely dependent on whether they feel you are credible and have evident disabilities.
I will go through each one at a time. Still a bit confused. I understand that I can add to what was put on the form, but how do I go about disagreeing with some of the statements? just had a look at the medication one. It says that I don't have any problems with taking medication. I wish! This in itself is a long story with many problems. But as an example my wife has to control what I take and when (under GP instructions owing to previous problems re. overdosing through forgetting). One of my drugs is Morphine MST which is taken every 12 hours round the clock at 100mg at a time. Also she is in control of my insulin regime 24/7. She has to make sure that the right level is injected of the right type at the right time - day and night. If I am going to lay it all out for the DWP with the MR I am going to have to say that that section of the form is a complete lie.

What is essential however.. I think you either put up or shut up... you need to take control of this claim or forget it... passing the buck of blame to others will not help you at all... and going gung-ho in attacking your PIP2 might backfire in suggesting you've signed your name to a document inclusive of false claims. You need to get off here... and get going with your reconsideration request... making it clear that you are requesting a mandatory reconsideration and blah blah blah.. then go through each of the activities you claim to have disablement sufficient to score points... detailing your problems etc. If you need any advice regarding interpreting the descriptors then there is various information out there including the DWP's handbook for DMs https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547146/pip-assessment-guide.pdf

Take a copy of whatever you send and ideally send it signed for or recorded delivery in order to have some documentary proof your request was sent in time. Contact them a day after they should have received it and ensure they got it.

Thank you for that link. Yes I have got my 'determination' hat on and hope that I can carry it through for the rest of the weekend.
This all reminds me of the very first DLA claim I made. I didn't go into any great detail primarily because I was under so much medication at the time and was attending the hospital Mental Health Day Service every day to feel safe. It came back - no DLA. When I happened to tell my CPN or was it my Social Worker? Anyhow they got in touch with the County Social Services office and I had a County Council Welfare Rights guy come to the hospital with a blank DLA form and he filled it in for me. That's when I was awarded High Care & Mobility only weeks after the DWP said that there was nothing wrong with me.
After that I did my own re-assessment forms which were a nightmare having to try to fight the DWP on my own as I didn't ask for anymore help from Social Services. I went about 7 years with only low mobility until I got help in 2011 from the CAB and it went back up to High Mobility Middle Care. So you could say that my DLA awards went up and down like a yo yo depending on if I asked for help in filling out the forms.

rockingbilly · 18 March 2017 at 1:49PM

bspm wrote: »

I believe the poster has already stated he has sent in a claim for AA, although this too might be a fabrication.
Yes it went off.

Totally agree with you, he really needs to stop blaming others for not filling in forms right to qualify for PIP, it is HIS form, he needs to tick the boxes that are applicable to him stating why he believes he qualifies and not supposedly say 'I told the Job Centre person this and he put that' so it is someone else's fault.
I agree, but when you ask a so called expert to help you out, most people will rely on what that person does as being correct. In the past I have had help from the County Council Welfare Rights Officer and the CAB and afterwards the right awards were made on what they wrote on the forms.

it is no ones fault but your own, they say PIP is more difficult to be given than DLA was, I believe DLA was just easier, hardly any checks and indefinite awards to lull people in to a false sense of getting money for nothing.

Like has been said, put up or shut up, enough is enough.

Well I am doing something about it now, but I know that it is going to be hard whilst fighting my own instinct all the way to give up.

rockingbilly · 18 March 2017 at 1:55PM

bspm wrote: »

But PLEASE do not seek advice on here, I don't have enough hours in the day to decipher your differing stories.

There are no 'differing stories' involved. I just don't tell it all - just bits.
Now the whole thing is in front of me I know deep down that to do the right thing I have to be open about everything. I don't want to have to do that - it is too hard to cope with as well as shameful and embarrassing. But I will try my level best. That's all I can do.

If you don't want to offer advice - I'm happy to go along with you on that, it's nothing less than what I deserve.

Muttleythefrog · 18 March 2017 at 2:01PM

On the PIP2 " It says that I don't have any problems with taking medication."
If it says that then yes you need to disagree with it and explain the reality as you did above. (It is impossible from here to determine how your engagement with the jobcentre employee landed up with a false statement like this).There's no simple way to address a completely false statement that you have given barring saying something must've been lost in translation between you and the person who completed it for you and you lacked time and health to review it. You have dug your hole... only you can dig out of it.. but you must appreciate that helping someone who has sent a signed 'application form' that is false is somewhat of a difficult challenge to overcome... rather like stepping in to defend someone facing a potential murder charge after they've been interviewed by police where they gave a full admission and handed them the murder weapon. You're left to argue that they were not of sound mind when they made the admission or committed the crime. Perhaps blame your medication.

The so-called expert that helped you probably was not expert at all. In the end the expert in this case is almost certainly you. It sounds like historically you have been getting lucky with the assistance you have had.. this perhaps lulled you into the false belief others could always successfully do your claims for you. Such a false belief you didn't even have the need to check their efforts before signing your name to agree with them.

I don't know what difficulties the new AA application presents to pursuing this PIP claim... but if it all goes t*ts up just plead insanity and say that recently you thought you were a woman called Shirley, that Daleks were running the local takeaway and that your mobility scooter got sucked up by a spaceship when you were eating spaghetti hoops. That'd be my expert advice... it should keep you out of conventional jail.

bspm · 18 March 2017 at 2:39PM

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

On the PIP2 "

I don't know what difficulties the new AA application presents to pursuing this PIP claim... but if it all goes t*ts up just plead insanity and say that recently you thought you were a woman called Shirley, that Daleks were running the local takeaway and that your mobility scooter got sucked up by a spaceship when you were eating spaghetti hoops. That'd be my expert advice... it should keep you out of conventional jail.

:rotfl::rotfl::T:beer:

Alice_Holt · 18 March 2017 at 3:20PM

One of the many puzzling aspects of rockingbiily's story is that the jobcentre helped him complete his PIP form. I haven't come across staff in a job centres who would offer to do this. I would be interested to hear from any current / former JC employees who could comment on this.
The DWP did have Financial Assessment & Benefits (FAB) Visiting Officers who would help with claiming benefits (mainly pension credit). A FAB officer would be trained write the form accurately, whereas a JC employee would not necessarily know the PIP criteria.

There is no suggestion either on the gov uk site or other government publications that you are able to trot down to your nearest JC with the PIP2 form -
https://www.gov.uk/pip/how-to-claim , and
" Information about how to complete the form will be included and is also available online.
Claimants may ask someone, such as a family member or a support organisation to help them complete the form. The PIP toolkit contains information to help support organisations help claimants."

A PIP form would take a minimum of 2 hours to complete to a reasonable standard. I can't see an JC employee taking 2 hours out of a day filled with meetings with job seekers to complete a PIP form for a 67 year old.

I'm also puzzled by why a 67 year old not claiming JSA or UC would be in a JC to begin with.

There is an obvious disconnect between a prolific and articulate poster capable of answering / refuting other posters arguments, and his many and various statements that he couldn't understand the PIP2 form / didn't read it / didn't realise it was incorrect / too busy thinking about which £50k vehicle to buy next for his wife / was affected by medication / had been abducted by aliens / it was everyone else's fault / couldn't find a pen, etc, etc.

Muttleythefrog · 18 March 2017 at 5:34PM

Alice_Holt wrote: »

One of the many puzzling aspects of rockingbiily's story is that the jobcentre helped him complete his PIP form. I haven't come across staff in a job centres who would offer to do this.

There is an obvious disconnect between a prolific and articulate poster capable of answering / refuting other posters arguments, and his many and various statements that he couldn't understand the PIP2 form / didn't read it / didn't realise it was incorrect / too busy thinking about which £50k vehicle to buy next for his wife / was affected by medication / had been abducted by aliens / it was everyone else's fault / couldn't find a pen, etc, etc.

I've a funny feeling he walked into a PUB not a JCP... there's always someone at the bar able to help with these sorts of things and quite probably would spend 2 hours of their time giving that help if they continued to get 'watered'. Let's be honest.. someone who on medication by their own admission can think they have problems fitting a mobility scooter into a car when they've never had a mobility scooter.... is going to be perfectly capable of mistaking a pub for an office and an alcoholic for a Jobcentre employee (in fact they may be one and the same!)

I agree with the analysis... there is a grave disconnect... psychologically incompatible. But then I guess there are all sorts out there. I used to run a pub and there was a young man who was intelligent and articulate and seemed very down to earth... good pool player too so made him captain of the team. But I got sick of the police visits to find him... if ever he found out there had been a fire in the city he'd contact police to confess to it...sometimes calling them from the pub. In the end I had to stop the TVs from showing the news.

[Deleted User] · 18 March 2017 at 5:37PM

rockingbilly wrote: »

Thanks
I believe that the reason for the PIP failure is entirely down to how the Jobcentre filled the form out for me. The evidence I have is excellent.
So with a better completed application form surely they will look at the content and not refer back to the mess created by the JC?
OK. My BB expires in September and as I don't drive anymore it really isn't a problem. My wife who does the driving has her own BB.
As I have said, I'm not bothered what rate I am offered or where it comes from just as long as it covers the cost of the road tax.
It would be acceptable to me for the government to acknowledge my disabilities by making such an award.
I can't find any reference to the descriptors for Attendance Allowance - does anyone have any info please?

Good to hear that Flo is alive and well and driving, i recall the time when she was killed off, miracles DO happen;)

Muttleythefrog · 18 March 2017 at 5:42PM

venison wrote: »

Good to hear that Flo is alive and well and driving, i recall the time when she was killed off, miracles DO happen;)

Well it just goes to show the value of DLA... people often think too narrowly of the sorts of things it can be spent on to improve the lives of disabled people. I admit myself I'd never thought of resurrection.

Calling time on PIP

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