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  • FIRST POST
    • Jimb73
    • By Jimb73 17th Sep 19, 4:06 PM
    • 3Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Jimb73
    Threats to UK pension savers
    • #1
    • 17th Sep 19, 4:06 PM
    Threats to UK pension savers 17th Sep 19 at 4:06 PM
    Hi there I am after a huge favour. Is there an expert out there that can help me with finding what are the 3 main threats to pension savers in this country. Doesn't have to be a great volume of info just the main issues and i can research this further please!
Page 3
    • cfw1994
    • By cfw1994 19th Sep 19, 7:25 AM
    • 418 Posts
    • 366 Thanks
    cfw1994
    In my view this is an underrated worry. When we're all living in places only accessible by ladder you will rue the day that you poo pooed the risk
    Originally posted by ColdIron
    So true. Never ignore a poo poo. As General Melchett warned us all!

    Meanwhile....I would say the major risks are:
    • Ignorance/apathy/lack-of-interest by people
    • Marxist politics espoused by McDonnell & Corbyn which would inevitably change the rules
    • Global Stagflation causing low rates of returns

    Plenty of other possibilities.

    Personally, the biggest risks probably boil down to:
    • stopping work too soon & spending excess money on expensive toys
    • Early collapse in DC pot (aka sequencing risk)
    • Overestimating ability to help offspring from a pensioners pot....
    • msallen
    • By msallen 19th Sep 19, 7:55 AM
    • 1,084 Posts
    • 1,359 Thanks
    msallen
    Judging by the comments of Corynistas and Brexiteers, then it is undoubtedly:

    1. Political and economic naivety
    2. Populism
    3. Underestimation of the likelihood of zombie apocalypse

    If you can solve number 1, then number 2 is less of a threat. Number 3 is always going to be problematic.
    • Triumph13
    • By Triumph13 19th Sep 19, 11:16 AM
    • 1,521 Posts
    • 2,124 Thanks
    Triumph13
    Actually the things that really worry me are:
    1. Expecting millions of economically illiterate and functionally inumerate people to successfully manage a drawdown pot. When huge numbers of them go broke there will a) be calls for 'something to be done' by government; and b) a mad scramble to sue everyone in sight which could break the whole system.
    2. DB pensioners generally keep spending regardless and help dampen economic swings. Many DC pensioners will react to market downturns by cutting their spending. This could lead to a feedback loop and a downward spiral.
    • Spreadsheetman
    • By Spreadsheetman 19th Sep 19, 12:54 PM
    • 292 Posts
    • 353 Thanks
    Spreadsheetman
    Actually the things that really worry me are:
    1. Expecting millions of economically illiterate and functionally inumerate people to successfully manage a drawdown pot. When huge numbers of them go broke there will a) be calls for 'something to be done' by government; and b) a mad scramble to sue everyone in sight which could break the whole system.
    2. DB pensioners generally keep spending regardless and help dampen economic swings. Many DC pensioners will react to market downturns by cutting their spending. This could lead to a feedback loop and a downward spiral.
    Originally posted by Triumph13
    That point 2 is bang-on. If I had a DB pension I would spend 100% of it whatever the state of the economy (beyond ensuring I had the usual emergency funds etc.). Since my pension is entirely DC I will spend very cautiously until I am past the sequence-of-returns risk years and in a bad economy I will reduce my spending to be bare essentials only.
    • Takedap
    • By Takedap 19th Sep 19, 1:25 PM
    • 437 Posts
    • 529 Thanks
    Takedap
    Jo Swinson and all other unaccepting remainers should be held to account trying to incite riots.
    Does she really think that 17.4 million are just going to accept their winning majority vote is cancelled?
    The lack of vision from remainers and what the real world is about is startling.
    Originally posted by GSP

    Jo Swinson can't do anything unless she is democratically elected. Once voted in, it makes her position legitimate.


    WRT the other bit. 17 million would probably do nothing. The other 400,000 would grumble amongst themselves & maybe a small percentage would take to the streets.


    But I'll be nothing compared to the unrest that will happen if the economy crashed after Boris had taken the country out using a legal loophole.
    • Terron
    • By Terron 19th Sep 19, 4:43 PM
    • 520 Posts
    • 567 Thanks
    Terron
    Inflation
    The Labour Party
    The 'Liberal' 'Democrats'
    Originally posted by davidr1964

    Some Liberal Democrats are sensible (though a it appears a minority)
    Paddy Ashdown said on the day of the referendum ďI will forgive no one who does not accept the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken whether itís by one percent or 20 percent."
    • GSP
    • By GSP 19th Sep 19, 5:20 PM
    • 237 Posts
    • 77 Thanks
    GSP


    WRT the other bit. 17 million would probably do nothing. The other 400,000 would grumble amongst themselves & maybe a small percentage would take to the streets.


    But I'll be nothing compared to the unrest that will happen if the economy crashed after Boris had taken the country out using a legal loophole.
    Originally posted by Takedap
    On the contrary, 17.4 million have been watching very patiently with dignity as this all plays out, though the anger has grown. Those that have shown themselves up to try and thwart Brexit have been noted.
    IF the result was cancelled, forget all your little remainer marches, there would be bedlam. And in time, to rid this country of a dictatorship that never wants us to leave the EU would create a monster towards the hard right. This country would never be the same, another reason to honour the vote now.

    IF the economy crashed. The word IF used alongside could, maybe, perhaps. All we have seen from remainer biased forecasts have not come true, why should they ever?
    • msallen
    • By msallen 19th Sep 19, 5:35 PM
    • 1,084 Posts
    • 1,359 Thanks
    msallen
    ... have been watching very patiently with dignity ...
    Originally posted by GSP
    As delusional as naive.
    Another addition to the ignore list.
    • GSP
    • By GSP 19th Sep 19, 5:45 PM
    • 237 Posts
    • 77 Thanks
    GSP
    As delusional as naive.
    Another addition to the ignore list.
    Originally posted by msallen
    Oh they definitely have while unaccepting remainers have !!!!!ed and moaned every day from day one.
    Again, the silent majority are watching very patiently, but shocked at the same time as a number have showed themselves up and insulted our democracy.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 19th Sep 19, 6:26 PM
    • 14,633 Posts
    • 13,075 Thanks
    zagfles
    Some Liberal Democrats are sensible (though a it appears a minority)
    Paddy Ashdown said on the day of the referendum ďI will forgive no one who does not accept the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken whether itís by one percent or 20 percent."
    Originally posted by Terron
    Some Brexiteers are quite sensible as well. Like Farage who said there should be a second referendum if the result is 52-48.

    Looks like the next election will be exactly that!
    • michaels
    • By michaels 19th Sep 19, 8:02 PM
    • 22,826 Posts
    • 104,555 Thanks
    michaels
    Some Brexiteers are quite sensible as well. Like Farage who said there should be a second referendum if the result is 52-48.

    Looks like the next election will be exactly that!
    Originally posted by zagfles
    Is that the election that the remain alliance shadow govt is too scared to call?
    Cool heads and compromise
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 19th Sep 19, 9:16 PM
    • 14,633 Posts
    • 13,075 Thanks
    zagfles
    Is that the election that the remain alliance shadow govt is too scared to call?
    Originally posted by michaels
    Yeah - bad tactics, it'll backfire. As discussed in other threads...
  • jamesd
    Expecting millions of economically illiterate and functionally inumerate people to successfully manage a drawdown pot. When huge numbers of them go broke there will a) be calls for 'something to be done' by government; and b) a mad scramble to sue everyone in sight which could break the whole system.
    Originally posted by Triumph13
    The requirement to offer four investment pathways starting in November may help some.

    My guess is that in most cases we'll end up telling people to say that they should refuse to use one of the investment pathways because I doubt that many will offer good drawdown choices in the drawdown pathway. Up to providers to pick so I expect them to be stuffed with poor own brand equity income and bond funds with a poor asset allocation.
    • Mordko
    • By Mordko 19th Sep 19, 11:18 PM
    • 437 Posts
    • 200 Thanks
    Mordko
    Actually the things that really worry me are:
    1. Expecting millions of economically illiterate and functionally inumerate people to successfully manage a drawdown pot.
    2. DB pensioners generally keep spending regardless and help dampen economic swings. Many DC pensioners will react to market downturns by cutting their spending. This could lead to a feedback loop and a downward spiral.
    Originally posted by Triumph13
    On the first point, I am not seeing a problem. Millions of retirees across the world seem to be managing just fine.

    On the second point, all DB pension is doing during a downturn = shifting the pain to the company with DB liabilities. Hence companies cut spending or go bankrupt. Thatís not great for the economy either.
    • Triumph13
    • By Triumph13 20th Sep 19, 7:13 AM
    • 1,521 Posts
    • 2,124 Thanks
    Triumph13
    On the first point, I am not seeing a problem. Millions of retirees across the world seem to be managing just fine.

    On the second point, all DB pension is doing during a downturn = shifting the pain to the company with DB liabilities. Hence companies cut spending or go bankrupt. Thatís not great for the economy either.
    Originally posted by Mordko
    In the US I believe Social Security generally forms a much bigger part of retirement income than the UK state pension. I know that Australia were talking about reversing some pension freedoms because of the number of people blowing their Super.
    The sponsoring companies of DBs are, hopefully, taking a rather longer term view and would only really see a significant impact if the downturn coincided with an actuarial review - and even then would probably be looking at spreading the impact over a decade. Individual DC pensioners like Spreadsheetman and me are more likely to have short term reactions, especially if they are lucky enough to have a fair bit of fat in their budget.
    • Mordko
    • By Mordko 20th Sep 19, 6:50 PM
    • 437 Posts
    • 200 Thanks
    Mordko
    In the US I believe Social Security generally forms a much bigger part of retirement income than the UK state pension. I know that Australia were talking about reversing some pension freedoms because of the number of people blowing their Super.
    The sponsoring companies of DBs are, hopefully, taking a rather longer term view and would only really see a significant impact if the downturn coincided with an actuarial review - and even then would probably be looking at spreading the impact over a decade. Individual DC pensioners like Spreadsheetman and me are more likely to have short term reactions, especially if they are lucky enough to have a fair bit of fat in their budget.
    Originally posted by Triumph13
    I am in Canada; Canada pension plan and benefits for over 65s provide a similar level of support to UK’s state pension. The vast majority of retirees have RRSP type pensions, which they can draw down any way they like (or buy an annuity) with a forced minimum withdrawal from 75. Canadian retirees are, on the whole, very well off.

    And companies with DB pensions have suffered following 2008 as downturn pushed interest rates down, resulting in MUCH higher pension liabilities. Most DB pensions this side of the ocean are underfunded; another downturn will push companies and local authorities into trouble.

    The main risk to pension management is that as individuals get older, they lose clarity of mind and make mistakes. That’s why I will buy annuity if and when I reach 75, using a portion of my funds. It’s also an insurance against outliving your money.
    Last edited by Mordko; 20-09-2019 at 6:53 PM.
    • nicknameless
    • By nicknameless 21st Sep 19, 3:51 PM
    • 641 Posts
    • 390 Thanks
    nicknameless
    Oh they definitely have while unaccepting remainers have !!!!!ed and moaned every day from day one.
    Again, the silent majority are watching very patiently, but shocked at the same time as a number have showed themselves up and insulted our democracy.
    Originally posted by GSP
    Brightening an otherwise dull afternoon - thanks for the laugh.

    Generally stupid politically?
    Gone slowly psychopathic?
    Gullible sucker puppet?

    No offence intended.
    • GSP
    • By GSP 22nd Sep 19, 8:07 PM
    • 237 Posts
    • 77 Thanks
    GSP
    Brightening an otherwise dull afternoon - thanks for the laugh.

    Generally stupid politically?
    Gone slowly psychopathic?
    Gullible sucker puppet?

    No offence intended.
    Originally posted by nicknameless
    On the contrary no offence taken.
    The tone you have written is typical remainer trait, abusive and classless.
    • newatc
    • By newatc 22nd Sep 19, 9:11 PM
    • 474 Posts
    • 590 Thanks
    newatc
    Events dear boy events.
    • metrobus
    • By metrobus 23rd Sep 19, 9:37 AM
    • 1,516 Posts
    • 773 Thanks
    metrobus
    Some Liberal Democrats are sensible (though a it appears a minority)
    Paddy Ashdown said on the day of the referendum ďI will forgive no one who does not accept the sovereign voice of the British people once it has spoken whether itís by one percent or 20 percent."
    Originally posted by Terron
    then when he lost he back tracked and would not accept democracy like the rest of the remoaners.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bv_1z2lFlw
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