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  • FIRST POST
    • z1a
    • By z1a 15th Sep 19, 2:07 PM
    • 2,320Posts
    • 2,382Thanks
    z1a
    0 WOW
    Air conditioning for free by accident!
    • #1
    • 15th Sep 19, 2:07 PM
    0 WOW
    Air conditioning for free by accident! 15th Sep 19 at 2:07 PM
    Just returned from a 2 week stay on Kos, one of the first questions we were asked on checking in a hotel was "Do you want air-con? at a price of €140". - €5 per night per room.
    I said we will decide after first night when we see if needed.
    As OH was unpacking I was mooching around apartment and I could see that 2 of the circuit breakers in consumer unit were tripped. Unit was accessible behind a clear perspex door that was just clipped shut, not locked. Purely out of interest I reset them and air-con units started up, temperature was controllable on keypad, so remote control not needed.
    Air-con was needed BTW, so left it on expecting to be charged at checkout, however receptionist checked our room bill at the end of stay, nothing owing, so good result, did feel guilty though, but they should lock the cabinets.
    Did re-trip them as we left.
    Would you have volunteered to pay if not asked?
Page 5
    • paulfoel
    • By paulfoel 20th Sep 19, 1:28 PM
    • 5,533 Posts
    • 2,570 Thanks
    paulfoel
    I really hope this person doesn't have a job which demands a bit of honesty to be honest. I can just imagine.....
    Cymru am Byth !!!
    • stoneman
    • By stoneman 23rd Sep 19, 4:06 AM
    • 4,339 Posts
    • 3,261 Thanks
    stoneman
    I'd have done it as well, good find OP.

    Just like I'd take home a nice pillow from a Vegas hotel. OH likes a pretty cocktail glass, I've had them as well from casinos.

    Oh and I've also taken stuff out of a buffet, aren't I the right criminal
    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
    • headpin
    • By headpin 23rd Sep 19, 7:53 PM
    • 719 Posts
    • 367 Thanks
    headpin
    Well, I've something further to add.

    You knew that the use of the airconditioner was chargeable and that as you had been using it, you owed payment so by not admitting to this, you committed fraud as I think a reasonable person (or a judge) would think you have a legal duty to declare that you had been using a paid for service.

    Fraud by failing to disclose information
    A person is in breach of this section if he—
    (a)dishonestly fails to disclose to another person information which he is under a legal duty to disclose, and
    (b)intends, by failing to disclose the information—
    (i)to make a gain for himself or another, or
    (ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/section/3
    Originally posted by shaun from Africa
    This is of course English Law and not applicable in Greece or any other country. And, in any case, what “legal duty” would the OP be under to disclose what had been done? May have a moral duty but certainly not a legal one.

    Also, how would the OP know if the hotel would suffer a loss if the AC was used? In a large establishment (I am assuming a reasonable size) then the AC would likely be running anyway and the use by the OP would not cost very much if anything at all in addition to the operating costs already being incurred. Certainly not €5 per day. So any loss would not and could not be the sum being requested as payment. It may be the additional cost of their use, if any, of the AC. €5 is not their loss as they have never had this sum and would need to prove that they had actually incurred this amount as the additional cost of the AC if they wanted to claim it as a loss. I doubt that they could.

    What is “criminal” is charging €5 per day when the actual additional cost to the establishment will probably be (much) less than 10% of this figure. But exploiting tourists is fine, I suppose? Everything cuts both ways.
    Last edited by headpin; 23-09-2019 at 8:01 PM.
    • alidai
    • By alidai 23rd Sep 19, 8:40 PM
    • 488 Posts
    • 159 Thanks
    alidai
    Why is it criminal to charge €5 for the AC? What profit margin is acceptable? The price was clearly there as an option to pay and therefore arguing that “the price is too much so I’ll take it for free” is stupid.

    Much like the argument of “ill stream premier league football because Sky costs too much and it shouldn’t”
    • stoneman
    • By stoneman 23rd Sep 19, 8:51 PM
    • 4,339 Posts
    • 3,261 Thanks
    stoneman
    Why is it criminal to charge €5 for the AC? What profit margin is acceptable? The price was clearly there as an option to pay and therefore arguing that “the price is too much so I’ll take it for free” is stupid.

    Much like the argument of “ill stream premier league football because Sky costs too much and it shouldn’t”
    Originally posted by alidai
    I stream NFL cause Gamepass is £140 for 12 weeks of prime football
    The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.
    • Takmon
    • By Takmon 24th Sep 19, 11:53 AM
    • 824 Posts
    • 827 Thanks
    Takmon
    This is of course English Law and not applicable in Greece or any other country. And, in any case, what “legal duty” would the OP be under to disclose what had been done? May have a moral duty but certainly not a legal one.

    Also, how would the OP know if the hotel would suffer a loss if the AC was used? In a large establishment (I am assuming a reasonable size) then the AC would likely be running anyway and the use by the OP would not cost very much if anything at all in addition to the operating costs already being incurred. Certainly not €5 per day. So any loss would not and could not be the sum being requested as payment. It may be the additional cost of their use, if any, of the AC. €5 is not their loss as they have never had this sum and would need to prove that they had actually incurred this amount as the additional cost of the AC if they wanted to claim it as a loss. I doubt that they could.

    What is “criminal” is charging €5 per day when the actual additional cost to the establishment will probably be (much) less than 10% of this figure. But exploiting tourists is fine, I suppose? Everything cuts both ways.
    Originally posted by headpin
    So using your logic if i went into a supermarket and stole all my shopping and got caught they would only be able to charge me the cost price for the shopping because that is the only loss they can prove and couldn't charge the price of each item as displayed

    You also don't seem to understand how Air Conditioning systems work in hotels. The OP had to physically turn on a circuit breaker to activate the air con so each room has it's own unit.
    So if we considering electricity alone the unit that just cools my bedroom in my house will use easily £2 a day and the UK isn't exactly known for high temperatures so it will cost more in hotter countries. Then you need to consider the cost of servicing and maintenance of the units.

    Also it's surprising how many people on here seem to be insulted by the fact that companies make profits on goods and services
    • RS2OOO
    • By RS2OOO 24th Sep 19, 10:23 PM
    • 60 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    RS2OOO
    Thanks for posting this OP. It's interesting to see the wild differences in opinion, and the analogies, some of which to me are far fetched.

    So OP worked out how to get free Air Con when it should have been chargeable.

    Someone likened this to a tradesman stealing all your jewellery which to me seems an extreme analogy.

    But what about Hotels that require your key card to operate the electricity? The idea being that you take your key card when leaving the room so as not to waste electricity by leaving the Air Con on.

    Yet so many people wedge a bit of cardboard in the slot so the aircon keeps the room nice and fresh ready for your return 8 hours later.

    Is that comparable to the OP situation?
    I feel it is more morally wrong than what the OP did, but almost everyone (I've come across in resort hotels) does this.

    Don't know why but I would feel bad doing the latter, but would feel victory doing what OP did.
    • couriervanman
    • By couriervanman 24th Sep 19, 10:33 PM
    • 518 Posts
    • 903 Thanks
    couriervanman
    And you still get the odd room cleaning operative/chambermaid/cleaner who insists on lifting your card out of the slot........normally when its 80f outside and you've been baking on the beach,and looking forward to returning too a nice cool room
    • seatbeltnoob
    • By seatbeltnoob 25th Sep 19, 10:08 AM
    • 688 Posts
    • 183 Thanks
    seatbeltnoob
    I do think it's an excessive charge for 5 euros per night per room. DId you stay in for 28 days, or 14 days with 2 rooms?


    I did volunteer parking charges at an IBIS when the staff forgot, it was £3.50 per night. Which for a gated (pin access) car park in the city of Manchester was very reasonable.



    I wouldn't be volunteering the AC charges, they are excessive and most hotels provide them for free.
    • seatbeltnoob
    • By seatbeltnoob 25th Sep 19, 10:13 AM
    • 688 Posts
    • 183 Thanks
    seatbeltnoob
    Yet so many people wedge a bit of cardboard in the slot so the aircon keeps the room nice and fresh ready for your return 8 hours later.
    Originally posted by RS2OOO

    I did that on holiday on Thailand, use my nectar card, not a cardboard. Funny thing is all the expensive hotels we stayed at would pretty much accept any card in the slot. So much for "smart card reader", but the budget hotels were on it and they refused to work without the valid card.


    They even deactivated cards that checked out. I found an old smart card left behind by previous guest and the card wouldn't work.


    I wouldn't leave it on for 8 hours though, that;s taking the !!!!. We just left it on when we left the hotel briefly to take our laundry over to the laundramat (cheaper and quicker to do it yourself than leaving it for hotel)
    • bradders1983
    • By bradders1983 25th Sep 19, 10:16 AM
    • 813 Posts
    • 579 Thanks
    bradders1983
    I did that on holiday on Thailand, use my nectar card, not a cardboard. Funny thing is all the expensive hotels we stayed at would pretty much accept any card in the slot. So much for "smart card reader", but the budget hotels were on it and they refused to work without the valid card.


    They even deactivated cards that checked out. I found an old smart card left behind by previous guest and the card wouldn't work.


    I wouldn't leave it on for 8 hours though, that;s taking the !!!!. We just left it on when we left the hotel briefly to take our laundry over to the laundramat (cheaper and quicker to do it yourself than leaving it for hotel)
    Originally posted by seatbeltnoob
    Easy way round that - if there are 2 of you ask for 2 cards. Leave one in the slot in the room all the time.

    Most will give you 2 cards anyway if there are 2 of you.
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