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  • FIRST POST
    • shiwen55
    • By shiwen55 15th Sep 19, 10:48 AM
    • 107Posts
    • 6Thanks
    shiwen55
    alleged sleeping on post
    • #1
    • 15th Sep 19, 10:48 AM
    alleged sleeping on post 15th Sep 19 at 10:48 AM
    Hi all,

    I'm a security officer for a French bank for almost five years.

    I became ill two years ago while I was with them and they have all the doctor's advise and letters.

    On Friday, instead of my regular post taking deliveries, they put me at reception which I don't cover normally.

    The night before I was in severe pain that I took two codeines and in the morning of Friday, I was still in pain and when I noticed I had put on reception, I took another codeine before the start of my shift.

    About 1 pm, I was so numb and tired that I put my head down, looking down for a few seconds. The client has seen me and alleged I was asleep. Now I have been suspended with pay to report to security head office on Monday morning.

    What can I do? Any advice? Is my job at risk, knowing they're aware of my medicines side effect (GP has sent them a letter, as they requested) and I'm ill?

    I am a member of the union as well and will contact them Monday afternoon.

    Thank you,

    shiwen55
Page 2
    • shiwen55
    • By shiwen55 15th Sep 19, 4:10 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    shiwen55
    Goodness. You are a grown up. You decide when you are unable to work because of sickness. You don't turn up and wait for them to send you home. And you don't ask them to send you home and then get ranty because they didn't. If you go in with that attitude, that it is all their fault for not being telepathic and knowing you are too sick to work, then you are storing up trouble.
    Originally posted by Blatchford
    I've asked them before but they didn't. Thanks anyway, I've got a rough idea what to say in the meeting.
    • foxtrotoscar
    • By foxtrotoscar 15th Sep 19, 4:29 PM
    • 1,438 Posts
    • 2,220 Thanks
    foxtrotoscar
    Asking to be sent home 2-3 times in a year is not normal. I worked for 50 years and never once asked to be sent home.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 15th Sep 19, 7:01 PM
    • 40,090 Posts
    • 37,454 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    I have occasionally gone to work when I shouldn't, and on realising that I was not fit, I did not ASK if I could go home, I TOLD my manager that I WAS going home (as soon as DH could pick me up.)

    I have once as a manager sent someone home, and I've also seen that happen where I work now. But it is certainly not 'normal' to expect to be sent home: as Blatchford said, you're a grown up ...
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    • Hauzen
    • By Hauzen 15th Sep 19, 7:11 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Hauzen
    I have occasionally gone to work when I shouldn't, and on realising that I was not fit, I did not ASK if I could go home, I TOLD my manager that I WAS going home (as soon as DH could pick me up.)

    I have once as a manager sent someone home, and I've also seen that happen where I work now. But it is certainly not 'normal' to expect to be sent home: as Blatchford said, you're a grown up ...
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    Yep, and given how organisations these days have quite tight absence management policies then a manager is even less likely to make the decision to send someone home, and would instead be putting the onus on the staff member themselves to make that call so as to minimise any complications with absence management triggers.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 15th Sep 19, 7:14 PM
    • 2,667 Posts
    • 2,304 Thanks
    Carrot007
    I've asked them before but they didn't. Thanks anyway, I've got a rough idea what to say in the meeting.
    Originally posted by shiwen55

    Why are you asking?


    If you are too ill to work you are mearly looking for a manager and telling them you are going home.


    Asking just gives the wrong impression.
    • Sylar82
    • By Sylar82 16th Sep 19, 1:50 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    Sylar82
    Asking to be sent home 2-3 times in a year is not normal. I worked for 50 years and never once asked to be sent home.
    Originally posted by foxtrotoscar
    I don't think that's something you can judge based on purely your own experience.
    Thanks to all who post competitions.

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    • harz99
    • By harz99 16th Sep 19, 4:01 PM
    • 2,937 Posts
    • 2,899 Thanks
    harz99
    Hi all,

    I'm a security officer for a French bank for almost five years.

    I became ill two years ago while I was with them and they have all the doctor's advise and letters.

    On Friday, instead of my regular post taking deliveries, they put me at reception which I don't cover normally.

    The night before I was in severe pain that I took two codeines and in the morning of Friday, I was still in pain and when I noticed I had put on reception, I took another codeine before the start of my shift.

    About 1 pm, I was so numb and tired that I put my head down, looking down for a few seconds. The client has seen me and alleged I was asleep. Now I have been suspended with pay to report to security head office on Monday morning.

    What can I do? Any advice? Is my job at risk, knowing they're aware of my medicines side effect (GP has sent them a letter, as they requested) and I'm ill?

    I am a member of the union as well and will contact them Monday afternoon.

    Thank you,

    shiwen55
    Originally posted by shiwen55
    So, what happened this morning, and what did your Union say?
    • shiwen55
    • By shiwen55 17th Sep 19, 8:31 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    shiwen55
    Hi all,

    Update:

    Monday meeting as I was told, was just to make a statement.

    They had checked CCTV, what they said I was so tired and sleepy that was putting my head down and up, like dozing off. There was no mention of sleeping at all.

    I was told I'd receive a letter within a few days, whether I resume duties or come for a disciplinary hearing. They seemed to be fine and satisfied with my answers but I don't trust them, they don't tell you their true feelings, double-faced.

    I have contacted my Union Rep and just waiting for the letter. I called the contract manager for an update, he wasn't very happy at all. I didn't want to, I asked Union Line and they said it was up to me to contact my employer, but I think I should've not.

    Thank you,

    shiwen55
    • shiwen55
    • By shiwen55 17th Sep 19, 8:33 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    shiwen55
    So, what happened this morning, and what did your Union say?
    Originally posted by harz99
    Yes mate, posted a reply. Sorry had a hectic day yesterday
    • 74jax
    • By 74jax 17th Sep 19, 8:56 AM
    • 5,168 Posts
    • 7,246 Thanks
    74jax
    Hi all,

    Update:

    Monday meeting as I was told, was just to make a statement.

    They had checked CCTV, what they said I was so tired and sleepy that was putting my head down and up, like dozing off. There was no mention of sleeping at all.

    I was told I'd receive a letter within a few days, whether I resume duties or come for a disciplinary hearing. They seemed to be fine and satisfied with my answers but I don't trust them, they don't tell you their true feelings, double-faced.

    I have contacted my Union Rep and just waiting for the letter. I called the contract manager for an update, he wasn't very happy at all. I didn't want to, I asked Union Line and they said it was up to me to contact my employer, but I think I should've not.

    Thank you,

    shiwen55
    Originally posted by shiwen55
    Isn't dozing off and sleeping the same thing? So they have this on CCTV?

    What did you call the Contract Manager for? What update? and you say you didn't want to call him, so why did you?

    And what letter are you waiting for from the Union?
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
    • shiwen55
    • By shiwen55 17th Sep 19, 9:13 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    shiwen55
    Isn't dozing off and sleeping the same thing? So they have this on CCTV?

    What did you call the Contract Manager for? What update? and you say you didn't want to call him, so why did you?

    And what letter are you waiting for from the Union?
    Originally posted by 74jax
    Blimey, been in this country for over 20 years and still people don't get me when I speak !!

    The letter they were trying to send, my employer of the outcome, Monday meeting.

    Do you seriously consider dozing off and sleeping to be the same?!

    I asked union line to call my employer, they said it's okay and was up to me. I called my employer, judging by union line
    • shiwen55
    • By shiwen55 17th Sep 19, 9:17 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    shiwen55
    I know, I wasn't even dozing off. Just because the client said something, they're looking to satisfy client.

    How come the contract manager is talking about dozing off and winking at the same time?

    It's been many years since my last splif, so I doubt I was hallucinating !!!!!
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 17th Sep 19, 9:19 AM
    • 2,598 Posts
    • 4,692 Thanks
    Sea Shell
    Well you weren't alert, were you!?

    Yes, dozing off IS sleeping, if only temporarily.

    What if you'd been driving...would you think dozing off is acceptable?

    It's also sometimes called nodding off, due to up and down "nodding" action...same thing.
    Last edited by Sea Shell; 17-09-2019 at 9:21 AM.
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow " JOB DONE!!
    This should now read "It's time to start digging up those Squirrelled Nuts"!!!
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 17th Sep 19, 9:21 AM
    • 7,135 Posts
    • 5,622 Thanks
    ohreally
    Sit back, let the process continue and don't contact managers. Is there no steward on-site.
    Donít be a canít, be a can.
    • JamoLew
    • By JamoLew 17th Sep 19, 9:29 AM
    • 150 Posts
    • 195 Thanks
    JamoLew
    In hindsight, you really should have insisted on having a union rep present when you attended the meeting.
    I would suggest you take his approach with any future meetings.
    • shiwen55
    • By shiwen55 17th Sep 19, 9:35 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    shiwen55
    Well you weren't alert, were you!?

    Yes, dozing off IS sleeping, if only temporarily.

    What if you'd been driving...would you think dozing off is acceptable?

    It's also sometimes called nodding off, due to up and down "nodding" action...same thing.
    Originally posted by Sea Shell
    They asked me why I didn't take a 10 min break, I said I was by myself and couldn't leave my post. All sorts of question which I replied it's to do with company policy, had asked before, turned down, so didn't challenge this time. I was not asleep and definitely want to see CCTV footage with a union rep.
    • 74jax
    • By 74jax 17th Sep 19, 9:51 AM
    • 5,168 Posts
    • 7,246 Thanks
    74jax
    Blimey, been in this country for over 20 years and still people don't get me when I speak !!
    Originally posted by shiwen55
    It could be because you aren't writing all the facts. Your mind is trying to process what is happening and going to quick for your fingers typing, so you think you have listed everything when really you haven't. So we are missing big chunks.


    The letter they were trying to send, my employer of the outcome, Monday meeting.
    Originally posted by shiwen55
    So the union is sending your employer the outcome of the meeting? Shouldn't it be the other way round and the union were not at the meeting?

    Do you seriously consider dozing off and sleeping to be the same?!
    Originally posted by shiwen55
    I do. You clearly don't. I don't know legally what the definition of each is. I'm guessing you can't doze off with working machinery.


    I know, I wasn't even dozing off. Just because the client said something, they're looking to satisfy client.

    How come the contract manager is talking about dozing off and winking at the same time?

    It's been many years since my last splif, so I doubt I was hallucinating !!!!!
    Originally posted by shiwen55
    I thought you said the CCTV showed you dozing off?

    I have no idea why your manager was winking at you, if he does it again I'd ask him.

    I have no idea what you are talking about re hallucinating - hallucinating the winking?
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
    • Blatchford
    • By Blatchford 17th Sep 19, 11:37 AM
    • 186 Posts
    • 250 Thanks
    Blatchford
    I agree that the posters various statements appear confusing, but there seems to be a point that nobody has made, but which is actually critical. It is the client who has made the compliant, and not the employer nor the contract manager (and isn't that the employer?). But whatever....

    The client can do absolutely anything they want. They are the client. So if they are not happy with the person the security company sends them, they all they have to do is say they don't want them back. The employing company cannot override the clients wishes. And if that means that the employer has no work for the poster, whether or not they fell asleep, and what the definition of falling asleep is, is completely irrelevant. That is surely the key matter for concern here - what is the clients position about the poster working on their premises?

    I'd also advise that arguing about whether you were asleep or your head was bobbing up and down or whatever is a waste of energy. If you were on reception, the place that is the public front of an organisation, and you were looking less than alert, that reflects badly on the client organisation. I'd be pretty annoyed, and so would most employers, if my reception looked like they were about to doze off at any moment. I'd expect them (and all my staff) to know whether they were fit enough to work or not, and if they weren't able to exercise that level of awareness, I would wonder how much confidence I could have in them, especially in a security role.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 17th Sep 19, 5:11 PM
    • 19,869 Posts
    • 50,458 Thanks
    elsien
    In hindsight, you really should have insisted on having a union rep present when you attended the meeting.
    I would suggest you take his approach with any future meetings.
    Originally posted by JamoLew
    There isn't the right for an investigation meeting, only if it's the disciplinary meeting.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • shiwen55
    • By shiwen55 18th Sep 19, 7:37 AM
    • 107 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    shiwen55
    I agree that the posters various statements appear confusing, but there seems to be a point that nobody has made, but which is actually critical. It is the client who has made the compliant, and not the employer nor the contract manager (and isn't that the employer?). But whatever....

    The client can do absolutely anything they want. They are the client. So if they are not happy with the person the security company sends them, they all they have to do is say they don't want them back. The employing company cannot override the clients wishes. And if that means that the employer has no work for the poster, whether or not they fell asleep, and what the definition of falling asleep is, is completely irrelevant. That is surely the key matter for concern here - what is the clients position about the poster working on their premises?

    I'd also advise that arguing about whether you were asleep or your head was bobbing up and down or whatever is a waste of energy. If you were on reception, the place that is the public front of an organisation, and you were looking less than alert, that reflects badly on the client organisation. I'd be pretty annoyed, and so would most employers, if my reception looked like they were about to doze off at any moment. I'd expect them (and all my staff) to know whether they were fit enough to work or not, and if they weren't able to exercise that level of awareness, I would wonder how much confidence I could have in them, especially in a security role.
    Originally posted by Blatchford
    I was on the phone with my union rep this morning. He said if they client does not want me on site, then they must do that in writing and the company must present this letter if requested.

    I'm going to hospital on a outpatient basis from next week for 4 weeks twice a week and have taken time off sick. The security company has postponed the disciplinary hearing which was meant to be next week Friday until after appointments.

    Thank you
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