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  • FIRST POST
    • PaulMNorth
    • By PaulMNorth 17th Sep 19, 9:50 AM
    • 12Posts
    • 7Thanks
    PaulMNorth
    Insurance Company Not Offering Enough To Replace Vehicle
    • #1
    • 17th Sep 19, 9:50 AM
    Insurance Company Not Offering Enough To Replace Vehicle 17th Sep 19 at 9:50 AM
    Hi,

    I hope someone might be able to help me here. 2 Weeks ago I had a non fault accident and the other person took full liability. They collected the car for assessment and have come back saying that it is not economical to repair so intend of writing it off.
    However, they have made an offer which they say is final but is nowhere near enough to replace the car like for like. They have offered £3900 even though a very poor example of the same vehicle on the same year and mileage is about £4500. They also said that the offer will expire and 2pm and after that I would have to accept or reject it. If I reject it I have to claim off my own insurance.
    Any advice on what they are doing here is even legal and what I can do would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
Page 1
  • archived user
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 19, 12:09 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Sep 19, 12:09 PM
    You can't use Autotader as they are normally private sales and therefore the price given will not be the purchase price (Yes you can say the same for other sales but from experience this is what they go by)

    Insurance companies use 3 sites and take an average off all 3, apparently they are not accessible to the general public (BS?)

    If it's a non-fault claim I don't see why you would have to claim off your insurance? Giving you a deadline to accept is a pressure tactic, if you feel this is unfair causing you issues in making a correct choice Iím sure this can be visited later via a complaint, Iím confident the Ombudsman what not take a shine to them doing this.

    Best bet is (although I said you can't use it) to check all the available sites, highlight all the vehicles that are in the same category as yours and work out the average (AT, Pistonheads, Parkers etc) then see how differennt the value really is, if it's a massive difference then submit it but on mine it was within £500.
    • TSx
    • By TSx 17th Sep 19, 8:01 PM
    • 793 Posts
    • 553 Thanks
    TSx
    • #3
    • 17th Sep 19, 8:01 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Sep 19, 8:01 PM
    As a third party, you are not an eligible complainant and will therefore not benefit from the protection of the Financial Ombudsman.

    There are essentially 4 options.

    1. Take their offer
    2. Try and persuade them to increase the offer by showing them auto trader adverts etc (these are not entirely persuasive but could help if there is a big difference). They may refuse to enter into further negotiations
    3. Claim via your own insurance and hope you get a better offer (and if not, potentially pursue a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman)
    4. Take them to court to try and get a better offer. Unlikely to be worth the risk for the sake of a few quid, but it is there as an option.
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 17th Sep 19, 10:43 PM
    • 3,439 Posts
    • 3,053 Thanks
    Aretnap
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 19, 10:43 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Sep 19, 10:43 PM
    If it's a non-fault claim I don't see why you would have to claim off your insurance? Giving you a deadline to accept is a pressure tactic, if you feel this is unfair causing you issues in making a correct choice Iím sure this can be visited later via a complaint, Iím confident the Ombudsman what not take a shine to them doing this.
    Originally posted by Loobiec
    As above the Ombudsman will have no opinion whatsoever - the OP is not a customer of the third party's insurer so he cannot complain to the Ombudsman about them. The Ombudsman will only entertain a complaint you make about the way your own insurance company (or bank, or finalising adviser etc) has treated you as a customer - not a complaint about someone else's insurer. If the third party insurer ain't give you a price that your happy with, your only recourse is to court.
    • PaulMNorth
    • By PaulMNorth 18th Sep 19, 5:34 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    PaulMNorth
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 19, 5:34 AM
    • #5
    • 18th Sep 19, 5:34 AM
    Thanks for all the replies guys. Yes it seems I have to accept their offer, i asked them to re-evaluate but they stood firm on the price.
    My big issue with them was giving me time limits of a couple of hours to accept or reject, turns out they cannot do that and I had to be given 24hrs minimum.
    Anyway, had to take the offer as I was not going to ruin my own no claims for the sake of a few quid.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 18th Sep 19, 6:15 AM
    • 29,470 Posts
    • 12,113 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    • #6
    • 18th Sep 19, 6:15 AM
    • #6
    • 18th Sep 19, 6:15 AM
    You have an incident to report to your insurer so claiming would probably make zero difference as it seems it was not your fault.

    Your insurer would claim the costs from the 3rd party insurer.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 18th Sep 19, 6:42 AM
    • 39,460 Posts
    • 163,550 Thanks
    silvercar
    • #7
    • 18th Sep 19, 6:42 AM
    • #7
    • 18th Sep 19, 6:42 AM
    You have an incident to report to your insurer so claiming would probably make zero difference as it seems it was not your fault.

    Your insurer would claim the costs from the 3rd party insurer.
    Originally posted by forgotmyname
    Definitely this. Your insurer claims everything back from the 3rd party insurer, so it is still a no fault claim. You can then take as long as it takes to negotiate a price.

    Telling the 3rd party insurer that you intend to do this if they don't come back with a reasonable offer within 24 hours could be worth a try. Play them back at their own game.
    • lopsyfa
    • By lopsyfa 18th Sep 19, 12:50 PM
    • 266 Posts
    • 166 Thanks
    lopsyfa
    • #8
    • 18th Sep 19, 12:50 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Sep 19, 12:50 PM
    The third party are preying on your unwillingness to contact your insurer. I will claim through my own insurer as they will be less partial (they will claim everything back from the third party) and you won't lose your non claim discount since you are not at fault. You also have the options to complain and escalate it to the Ombudsman.
    Last edited by lopsyfa; 18-09-2019 at 12:54 PM.
  • archived user
    • #9
    • 18th Sep 19, 12:50 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Sep 19, 12:50 PM
    As a third party, you are not an eligible complainant and will therefore not benefit from the protection of the Financial Ombudsman.

    There are essentially 4 options.

    1. Take their offer
    2. Try and persuade them to increase the offer by showing them auto trader adverts etc (these are not entirely persuasive but could help if there is a big difference). They may refuse to enter into further negotiations
    3. Claim via your own insurance and hope you get a better offer (and if not, potentially pursue a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman)
    4. Take them to court to try and get a better offer. Unlikely to be worth the risk for the sake of a few quid, but it is there as an option.
    Originally posted by TSx
    As above the Ombudsman will have no opinion whatsoever - the OP is not a customer of the third party's insurer so he cannot complain to the Ombudsman about them. The Ombudsman will only entertain a complaint you make about the way your own insurance company (or bank, or finalising adviser etc) has treated you as a customer - not a complaint about someone else's insurer. If the third party insurer ain't give you a price that your happy with, your only recourse is to court.
    Originally posted by Aretnap
    I'm sorry but this is not correct, you have every right to make a complaint to any company regardless if you're a customer or not.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/insurance/insurance/insurance-claims/an-insurer-approaches-you-to-settle-a-claim/

    "If you’re unhappy with the other person’s insurer
    You can complain to the other person’s insurer if you think they’re being unfair or putting pressure on you. You should be able to find the insurer’s contact details on their website or on any paperwork they’ve sent you"

    Whilst it may not increase the price they are offering you, you have every right to complain if they are making you feel the way you have mentioned.

    Edit:

    Thanks for all the replies guys. Yes it seems I have to accept their offer, i asked them to re-evaluate but they stood firm on the price.
    My big issue with them was giving me time limits of a couple of hours to accept or reject, turns out they cannot do that and I had to be given 24hrs minimum.
    Anyway, had to take the offer as I was not going to ruin my own no claims for the sake of a few quid.
    Originally posted by PaulMNorth
    Are you able to go back on this? I feel you've been pressured into this decision it's not the correct choice to have made with a limited information you have been provided, have you spoken to your own insurer about this? (This is of course my opinion and I only have the information provided by you)
    Last edited by Loobiec; 18-09-2019 at 1:04 PM.
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 18th Sep 19, 8:28 PM
    • 20,736 Posts
    • 12,848 Thanks
    dacouch
    I'm sorry but this is not correct, you have every right to make a complaint to any company regardless if you're a customer or not.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/insurance/insurance/insurance-claims/an-insurer-approaches-you-to-settle-a-claim/

    "If youíre unhappy with the other personís insurer
    You can complain to the other personís insurer if you think theyíre being unfair or putting pressure on you. You should be able to find the insurerís contact details on their website or on any paperwork theyíve sent you"

    Whilst it may not increase the price they are offering you, you have every right to complain if they are making you feel the way you have mentioned.

    Edit:



    Are you able to go back on this? I feel you've been pressured into this decision it's not the correct choice to have made with a limited information you have been provided, have you spoken to your own insurer about this? (This is of course my opinion and I only have the information provided by you)
    Originally posted by Loobiec
    You can complain all you want to a third party Insurer, but the Ombudsman will not get involved except in extremely exceptional circumstances
  • archived user
    You can complain all you want to a third party Insurer, but the Ombudsman will not get involved except in extremely exceptional circumstances
    Originally posted by dacouch
    I worked for a credit card company, we once had a complaint about an advert that we ran, it had a young girl picking a flower (this was is illegal apparently) someone complained to us about this, we sent a letter etc and paid some compensation (I think we also gave some money to charity), this person took their complaint to the ombudsman because they were still not happy about it.

    It was upheld, you call that extreme? I have dealt with the Ombudsman on a daily basis for many years and I can assure you, the Ombudsman WILL get involved if they deem the outcome of the complaint from the 3rd party company as unacceptable or fair on the individual in question, the extremity of it is irrelevant.

    I'd also say pressuring someone into accepting a undervalued offer would count as 'extreme'.

    I'm going to stop going into this now as it is diverting from the OP.

    https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/insurance/motor-insurance/vehicle-valuations-write-offs
    Last edited by Loobiec; 18-09-2019 at 9:13 PM.
    • Nebulous2
    • By Nebulous2 19th Sep 19, 2:36 AM
    • 2,432 Posts
    • 1,609 Thanks
    Nebulous2
    You don't have to take their offer or go through your own insurer. There is an option of using a third-party claim organisation. Threaten them with that, say you're looking for a no-win no-fee company as the offer isn't high enough and see what they offer. Insurers hate them and try hard to avoid them.

    You don't need to follow through, using one can be quite messy, but the threat may make a difference.
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 19th Sep 19, 10:02 PM
    • 20,736 Posts
    • 12,848 Thanks
    dacouch
    I worked for a credit card company, we once had a complaint about an advert that we ran, it had a young girl picking a flower (this was is illegal apparently) someone complained to us about this, we sent a letter etc and paid some compensation (I think we also gave some money to charity), this person took their complaint to the ombudsman because they were still not happy about it.

    It was upheld, you call that extreme? I have dealt with the Ombudsman on a daily basis for many years and I can assure you, the Ombudsman WILL get involved if they deem the outcome of the complaint from the 3rd party company as unacceptable or fair on the individual in question, the extremity of it is irrelevant.

    I'd also say pressuring someone into accepting a undervalued offer would count as 'extreme'.

    I'm going to stop going into this now as it is diverting from the OP.

    https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/insurance/motor-insurance/vehicle-valuations-write-offs
    Originally posted by Loobiec

    Great story etc but you do not know what you're talking about in relation to Insurance. A third party has literally zero chance of the Ombudsman accepting a complating from them about an Insurer of whom they are not a customer

    Please stop giving the poster false information abiout them being able to complain to the Ombudsman as everyone apart from you lknows this not to be the case.

    Assuming your story about the advert is true, the Ombudsman accepts complaints from customers of a financial business or potential customers. Your story would come under the latter

    https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/faqs/using-service/can-bring-complaint-ombudsman
    • rudekid48
    • By rudekid48 20th Sep 19, 10:18 AM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 3,639 Thanks
    rudekid48
    I worked for a credit card company, we once had a complaint about an advert that we ran, it had a young girl picking a flower (this was is illegal apparently) someone complained to us about this, we sent a letter etc and paid some compensation (I think we also gave some money to charity), this person took their complaint to the ombudsman because they were still not happy about it.

    It was upheld, you call that extreme? I have dealt with the Ombudsman on a daily basis for many years and I can assure you, the Ombudsman WILL get involved if they deem the outcome of the complaint from the 3rd party company as unacceptable or fair on the individual in question, the extremity of it is irrelevant.

    I'd also say pressuring someone into accepting a undervalued offer would count as 'extreme'.

    I'm going to stop going into this now as it is diverting from the OP.

    https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/insurance/motor-insurance/vehicle-valuations-write-offs
    Originally posted by Loobiec
    Cool story but completely irrelevant to the OP. You are wrong and not helping the OP.
    All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
  • archived user
    Great story etc but you do not know what you're talking about in relation to Insurance. A third party has literally zero chance of the Ombudsman accepting a complating from them about an Insurer of whom they are not a customer

    Please stop giving the poster false information abiout them being able to complain to the Ombudsman as everyone apart from you lknows this not to be the case.

    Assuming your story about the advert is true, the Ombudsman accepts complaints from customers of a financial business or potential customers. Your story would come under the latter

    https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/faqs/using-service/can-bring-complaint-ombudsman
    Originally posted by dacouch
    Can he complain to them? - YES, will they go 'you have to give him £1000 more', no. Can he go to them about them using pressure tactics to force him into a decision? Yes, of course he can and YES they would look into that.

    You have assumed I'm taking financially, I am NOT nor have I ever and you can't go 'they will look at EXTREME cases only' what is an extreme case?

    The story is correct and why would it ever be looked as a 'potential customer'?

    Cool story but completely irrelevant to the OP. You are wrong and not helping the OP.
    Originally posted by rudekid48
    I have helped the OP, I have never informed the OP to go to the Ombudsman regarding the financial matter. I have informed the OP not to accept the offer and to use their own insure and to complain the company involved about the pressure tactics they have used.

    I assume you both have large amount of dealings with them eh?
    Last edited by Loobiec; 20-09-2019 at 11:41 AM.
    • rudekid48
    • By rudekid48 20th Sep 19, 2:53 PM
    • 2,149 Posts
    • 3,639 Thanks
    rudekid48
    Can he complain to them? - YES, will they go 'you have to give him £1000 more', no. Can he go to them about them using pressure tactics to force him into a decision? Yes, of course he can and YES they would look into that.

    You have assumed I'm taking financially, I am NOT nor have I ever and you can't go 'they will look at EXTREME cases only' what is an extreme case?

    The story is correct and why would it ever be looked as a 'potential customer'?



    I have helped the OP, I have never informed the OP to go to the Ombudsman regarding the financial matter. I have informed the OP not to accept the offer and to use their own insure and to complain the company involved about the pressure tactics they have used.

    I assume you both have large amount of dealings with them eh?
    Originally posted by Loobiec
    Yes I do, but probably not as much as Dacouch.

    The OP is not a policyholder of the TP insurer, nor a 'potential customer' (for motor insurance this tends to apply when people feel misled or aggrieved due to something that happens when obtaining a quotation or attempting to buy a policy). As such, their dealings with the insurer as a 'Third Party Claimant' do not have the same recourse with FOS as they would if they had claimed directly with their own insurer. This is one of the downsides of dealing directly with the TP insurer after a non-fault accident - there are upsides e.g. not having to pay & reclaim excess etc, but your options (complaints wise) are limited if it comes to a dispute.

    The example story that you have given has nothing to do with the situation here. Nobody is questioning if the story is real - just pointing out that it has no relevance to this situation.
    Last edited by rudekid48; 20-09-2019 at 3:49 PM. Reason: typo
    All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
    • dacouch
    • By dacouch 20th Sep 19, 8:48 PM
    • 20,736 Posts
    • 12,848 Thanks
    dacouch
    Can he complain to them? - YES, will they go 'you have to give him £1000 more', no. Can he go to them about them using pressure tactics to force him into a decision? Yes, of course he can and YES they would look into that.

    You have assumed I'm taking financially, I am NOT nor have I ever and you can't go 'they will look at EXTREME cases only' what is an extreme case?

    The story is correct and why would it ever be looked as a 'potential customer'?



    I have helped the OP, I have never informed the OP to go to the Ombudsman regarding the financial matter. I have informed the OP not to accept the offer and to use their own insure and to complain the company involved about the pressure tactics they have used.

    I assume you both have large amount of dealings with them eh?
    Originally posted by Loobiec

    Can he complain to them yes he can, are they under any regulatory obligation to investigate his complaint, no they are not. They can simply toss his complaint straight in the bin if they feel like it.

    and no the Ombudsman is unlikely to look at the third party Insurer applying pressure to accept the valuation as they are not the OP's Insurer and no contract exists between the OP and the Insurer.
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