Paypal and small claims court

13567…11

Comments

  • Sam1224
    Sam1224 Posts: 41 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    So would PayPal's T&C have any effect on my claim as they don't have to offer the buyer protection service on all transactions!

    Please let me know.

    Thanks in advance
  • forgotmyname
    forgotmyname Posts: 32,549 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    You bought it on ebay, why did you not win the ebay case?
    Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...

  • Sam1224
    Sam1224 Posts: 41 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    edited 27 September 2018 at 2:39PM
    forgotmyname wrote: »
    You bought it on ebay, why did you not win the ebay case?

    Unfortunately once the case is raised with Paypal eBay won't have the option to dispute the same transaction, hence they provided me with all evidence to support the case with Paypal.

    I just want to know whether the PayPal T&C would have any effect on my court claim!

    Thanks
  • forgotmyname
    forgotmyname Posts: 32,549 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Why was the case not disputed with ebay? That would be the first port of call and the main option to open a case.

    Puzzled why paypal and not ebay?
    Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...

  • Sam1224
    Sam1224 Posts: 41 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    forgotmyname wrote: »
    Why was the case not disputed with ebay? That would be the first port of call and the main option to open a case.

    Puzzled why paypal and not ebay?

    After I made the payment, the seller stopped responding to my messages, then I checked the items that he sold last 15 days and found out that the seller sold the same item 3 times within an hour, so I had to move fast to stop the payment. eBay system won’t let you dispute any transaction until the estimated delivery time passes first, while PayPal system will let you open the dispute straightaway, hence the case was raised with PayPal not eBay.

    Could you please let me know whether PayPal‘s terms and conditions would have any effect on my court claim!

    Thanks
  • waamo
    waamo Posts: 10,298 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
    From the looks of things your argument isn't about their t&c's it's about them not following their own guidelines. If they were negligent then they can't hide behind t&c's.

    If they weren't negligent you may struggle.

    It is for the judge to decide the merits of both sides of the argument.

    Having not seen your claim or their defence no one is able to give any indication of its validity or otherwise.
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    You can't base a claim for pure economic loss in tort (negligence).

    Your claim is they didn't uphold their own T&C's, therefore its action founded on contract. It would be argued on the same basis basically - that they were negligently in breach of contract and that breach caused a loss. However, you may fail on causation - in order to recover damages the damages must be either a direct or indirect/consequential loss caused by the breach itself. The problem being that you had already incurred the loss at the time of their alleged breach via breach of another contract with the seller.

    The clause about not offering protection on all transactions is (presumably - I haven't actually checked) with regards to transactions listed in their exemptions - such as payments sent as gifts, payments for customised goods etc.


    Did you complain to the financial ombudsman? Won't cost you a penny and they tend to base their decisions on whats reasonable with consideration for statute & t&c's. They have previously been sympathetic even in swift or bank transfer payments (which carry no protection via statute or t&c's I believe) where the bank could have at least tried to recall the payment but didn't.
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • Sam1224
    Sam1224 Posts: 41 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    unholyangel wrote: »
    Did you complain to the financial ombudsman? Won't cost you a penny and they tend to base their decisions on whats reasonable with consideration for statute & t&c's. They have previously been sympathetic even in swift or bank transfer payments (which carry no protection via statute or t&c's I believe) where the bank could have at least tried to recall the payment but didn't.

    Yes, I have contacted the Financial Ombudsman and waited over two months Andy then been told that they won’t be able to do anything because PayPal terms and conditions states that the buyer protection is not guaranteed on all transactions so the ombudsman didn’t even check my evidence at all, instead, they just read through PayPal T&C.

    I will start the court case within days hopefully, so please guys any tips will be appreciated.

    Thanks
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    And did you then appeal the ombudsman decision? Initially its only a caseworker who reviews it.

    As I said above, I think a court claim against paypal will fail on causation. Really, you should be chasing the seller.
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • Sam1224
    Sam1224 Posts: 41 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    edited 28 September 2018 at 3:16PM
    unholyangel wrote: »
    And did you then appeal the ombudsman decision? Initially its only a caseworker who reviews it.

    As I said above, I think a court claim against paypal will fail on causation. Really, you should be chasing the seller.

    The ombudsman will only look at the company T&C and see whether they have followed it or not. So according to PayPal T&C buyer protection is not guaranteed on any transaction and it's down to Paypal themselves to make a final decision when a case is raised by a buyer.

    The lady from the Ombudsman service told me over the phone that my other option is to raise a small claim court as the court will have much more power than the Ombudsman.

    When the case will be reviewed by a Judge, surely all evidence I submitted to PayPal will be considered, eBay confirmed that the seller story to Paypal was all fake, PayPal had the opportunity to reverse back the payment but they just relied on that the item was for collection which is wrong.
    PayPal guideline is to check the listing and see the delivery method was an option or not but they failed to do so, the listing clearly says Next Day Delivery, also PayPal sent me in writing (email) stating that the seller has provided a tracking info and they confirmed the delivery using that tracking number. No tracking info was provided at all by the seller, their excuse was that the seller gave them corespondent iMessages from a phone number asking for the item to be picked up, that phone number is not mine and PayPal didn't even bother to ask me about these messages.

    So how is it possible to lose this case! The scammer wouldn't be able to walk away with the payment if PayPal followed their own guidelines!!

    So do you still think that I will lose this case!

    Thanks
★ ★ ★ Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.1K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.2K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173K Life & Family
  • 247.8K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards