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  • FIRST POST
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 9th Jun 15, 6:25 AM
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    Martyn1981
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news (last 2 weeks)
    • #1
    • 9th Jun 15, 6:25 AM
    Green, ethical, energy issues in the news (last 2 weeks) 9th Jun 15 at 6:25 AM
    MSE Insert:

    We've seen some debate on this thread about the relevance of some posts to the topic.

    To ensure the thread remains on topic for forumites wanting to discuss the latest news we're asking that all posts contain a link to the news you're discussing.

    For the purposes of this thread the "news" needs to be within the last two weeks.

    Back to Martyn1981's original post.

    ---

    I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread for posting general news items that may be of interest.

    PV and the 'Solar in the news' thread attract a lot of interest, so here's a thread for all the other goings on.

    Mart.
    Last edited by Former MSE Andrea; 09-10-2018 at 9:41 AM.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Page 111
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 14th Jun 19, 9:15 AM
    • 3,020 Posts
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    NigeWick
    The main drivers to control birth rate,
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Children surviving. Once they all survive, couples generally only have an average of two.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 14th Jun 19, 1:02 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Exactly that...as soon as the circumstances that caused the migration subside... famine, war, climate etc, the homeland will 'backfill' until it reaches saturation point again.
    Originally posted by 1961Nick
    The main driver, and back to the thread and board, will be AGW, so no backfill. But the issue you are trying to spin around is that of global population, and migration doesn't change that, it simply moves the total about.

    You have lately tried to challenge the costs of addressing AGW, and also bring up migration, well, that's going to be a biggy in the cost column.


    As distasteful as it may be to you, you can't exclude a rising human population from any discussion about AGW.
    Originally posted by 1961Nick
    Yes and no. The rising population is baked in, it is about 7bn, and it will get to about 11bn. Nothing we can do can stop that rise now, and the reason I explained about peak child, was to point out that the birthrate issue is already (largely) resolved.

    So, in effect, population has no bearing on our policies going forward as it is a fixed issue - what will be, will be - so acknowledging the problem is fine, but it is nothing more than a distraction regarding all the action we need to take as regards CO2 emissions. We need zero CO2 per capita.

    If you want a global solution, you have to address global issues.
    Originally posted by 1961Nick
    Give a solution that will change the population projection, or move on to solutions we can actually do something about now?
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 14th Jun 19, 1:09 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Children surviving. Once they all survive, couples generally only have an average of two.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Exactly. And whilst we had a long time to adjust from high birth rates as medicine and health standards slowly rose, other nations got the benefits far faster (but later) and have had to adjust rapidly.

    Bangladesh is a great example, where thanks to education, especially trained women visiting rural communities, they've managed to reduce their birth rate from over 6 to close to 2 per woman in just 50yrs or so.

    For anyone interested in the big picture I watched a great Ted talk some years ago, which goes into great detail:

    DON'T PANIC — Hans Rosling showing the facts about population
    Last edited by Martyn1981; 14-06-2019 at 1:13 PM.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Piddles
    • By Piddles 14th Jun 19, 2:58 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    Piddles
    For anyone interested in the big picture I watched a great Ted talk some years ago, which goes into great detail:

    DON'T PANIC — Hans Rosling showing the facts about population
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    I just watched this.

    Fascinating.

    I considered myself educated and well informed. But not so much right now.

    If you haven't seen it, take an hour out to watch it. It may be the most valuable hour you've spent in a while.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 15th Jun 19, 6:10 AM
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    • 13,460 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    I just watched this.

    Fascinating.

    I considered myself educated and well informed. But not so much right now.

    If you haven't seen it, take an hour out to watch it. It may be the most valuable hour you've spent in a while.
    Originally posted by Piddles
    Many thanks, and just to re-cap on some of my recent posts, we can no longer look for excuses to act, or for others to do it for us.

    We have a responsibility to act on emissions as the science is solid and decided, questioning it, is a waste of everyone's time now. Hiding behind denials such as CO2 benefits for plants, or pretending the UK's (or any other country) part is smaller than it is, is just an excuse to avoid action. And hiding behind population growth is pointless*, the main issue - birthrate - is relatively solved now, so we have to accept the baked in growth from longer life.

    This thread (and board) I believe is one to discuss solutions, not deny (nor hide from) problems. And personally I think the news is great, we just need to speed up deployment and integration.

    * @Zeupater - no offence is meant against you, the way I initially read your post, and still do on on re-checking it, is that you are acknowledging population growth as a driver of increased demand, but pointing out that the problem is too many children per family. Points I agree on entirely.

    Hi

    But even that isn't the main problem .... moving backwards towards the root cause we have a level where governments spend tomorrow's earnings up front and then encourage population growth & inflation to balance their position, then there's the root cause .... population size & growth ...

    If the future of humanity (not the planet as it will eventually recover!) is doomed then it's down to whoever replaces their own existence on more than a one-for-one basis ...

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    It was the use of your post, and the implication that the issue is not being addressed, that I object too.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 15th Jun 19, 4:01 PM
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    Martyn1981
    Praise be to cheese's.

    Cracking cheese, Gromit! Wensleydale waste to heat 4,000 homes

    The Wensleydale Creamery has struck a deal to supply the waste whey from its cheese factory to a local bioenergy plant that produces enough renewable biogas to heat 4,000 homes. The Leeming biogas plant, which currently runs on ice-cream residue, will use a process called anaerobic digestion to turn the dairy-based waste into renewable biogas.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • pile-o-stone
    • By pile-o-stone 15th Jun 19, 6:12 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 219 Thanks
    pile-o-stone
    They must have run out of young men taking whey in the false belief that they need all that protein to get big when doing weights. In reality they are just overloading their kidneys and liver as their bodies try desperately to get rid of it all. Eventually they may end up suffering from osteoporosis, renal disease or cancer.

    Alternatively they use these byproducts to feed livestock - an unhealthy dose of rubbish that provides little or no nutritional value and means the meat they provide is also lacking in nutrition.
    5.18 kWp PV systems (3.68 E/W & 1.5 E).
    Solar iBoost+ to two immersion heaters on 300L thermal store.
    Vegan household with 100% composted food waste
    • silverwhistle
    • By silverwhistle 16th Jun 19, 10:03 AM
    • 2,417 Posts
    • 3,495 Thanks
    silverwhistle
    Alternatively they use these byproducts to feed livestock - an unhealthy dose of rubbish that provides little or no nutritional value and means the meat they provide is also lacking in nutrition.
    Originally posted by pile-o-stone

    Hmm, there's no coincidence that parma ham and parmesan come from the same area.


    I used to live in a different area of Italy with a strong cheese making tradition and 10ish years ago the Chinese were mopping up all the surplus whey they could get. No idea what _they_ were doing with it!
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