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  • FIRST POST
    • palman
    • By palman 29th Apr 19, 5:51 PM
    • 80Posts
    • 7Thanks
    palman
    economy 7 check your times
    • #1
    • 29th Apr 19, 5:51 PM
    economy 7 check your times 29th Apr 19 at 5:51 PM
    Well after getting a hefty bill from Scottish power i did a bit of research and after many years with SP i moved onto Shell Energy. Only to find out this morning that after being told initially that the off peak hours were the same in my case with SP 1-8am all year round, i then find out its 12.15- 7.15am, so much for having a late shower. The washer and dryer are all on timers. But hers the kicker, during the winter months when its darker and you stay in bed longer, the hours are 11.15pm - 6.15am. Talk about giving with one hand and taking with another. I just i'd post this up to share with everyone so you can check your economy 7 times. I was thinking of moving to Bulb but theres is 12-7am but i dunno yet if thats all year round. The problem is their standing charges are on par with what i was paying at SP
    Last edited by palman; 29-04-2019 at 6:23 PM.
Page 1
    • Neil Jones
    • By Neil Jones 29th Apr 19, 6:09 PM
    • 2,334 Posts
    • 1,654 Thanks
    Neil Jones
    • #2
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:09 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:09 PM
    On a lot of meters the off-peak timer does drift, particularly the older mechanical ones, so your 7hrs off-peak could be literally anywhere during the day and not rock solid fixed at midnight-7am. However in most cases it will be around that time.
    • palman
    • By palman 29th Apr 19, 6:14 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    palman
    • #3
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:14 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:14 PM
    indeed but mine is a new digital one, just seems to be a give with one hand and take with another on the part of Shell, ok have it 12.15 to 7.15 but keep it at that, when its winter everything is on more anyway. hence my comment
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 29th Apr 19, 6:17 PM
    • 2,365 Posts
    • 2,034 Thanks
    Carrot007
    • #4
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:17 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:17 PM
    indeed but mine is a new digital one, just seems to be a give with one hand and take with another on the part of Shell, ok have it 12.15 to 7.15 but keep it at that, when its winter everything is on more anyway. hence my comment
    Originally posted by palman

    The meters (all timeswitched ones) stay at the same time. We however change the clocks.


    Only the old teleswitched ones they are trying to get rid of changed.


    Since smart meters are essentially a computer there is no reason they could not change like your compuiter does. But AFAIK this was not even considered.
    • Flt. Lt. Biggles
    • By Flt. Lt. Biggles 29th Apr 19, 6:18 PM
    • 153 Posts
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    Flt. Lt. Biggles
    • #5
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:18 PM
    Economy 6 - who'd have thought it?
    • #5
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:18 PM
    Well after getting a hefty bill from Scottish power i did a bit of research and after many years with SP i moved onto Shell Energy. Only to find out this morning that after being told initially that the off peak hours were the same in my case with SP 1-8am all year round, i then find out its 1.15- 7.15am, so much for having a late shower. The washer and dryer are all on timers. But hers the kicker, during the winter months when its darker and you stay in bed longer, the hours are 11.15pm - 6.15am. Talk about giving with one hand and taking with another. I just i'd post this up to share with everyone so you can check your economy 7 times. I was thinking of moving to Bulb but theres is 12-7am but i dunno yet if thats all year round. The problem is their standing charges are on par with what i was paying at SP
    Originally posted by palman
    You've just found out its 1.15- 7.15am?
    That would make it Economy 6. Don't know any supplier that offers that.

    Btw, when you change supplier, it doesn't change the times of off peak hours - that's controlled by the meter
    • IainRae
    • By IainRae 29th Apr 19, 6:18 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    IainRae
    • #6
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:18 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:18 PM
    Having today sent my meter readings to E-on. Somehow I wondered when my "Economy 7" hours were - About a million years ago when I first got Economy 7 I seem to remember being told that the switching time was controlled by a radio signal - anyway I have spent about 1/2 an hour on the 'phone to E-on and was told my hours are now BST 01:30 -08:30 and that the hours are set in the meter.


    But is this correct? I was not convinced so I went to the internet where maybe, maybe I should have started. Of course I am now even more confused. The internet seems to suggest that different suppliers have different hours - but surely this would be impossible with the hours set in the actual meter? My meter along with my neighbours was probably originally installed by Seeboard but now we buy electricity from many different suppliers so do we all have the same hours for Economy 7?


    Or was the radio signal story true? Certainly the guy at E-on did not believe my radio signal story, so maybe that was just my fantasy.


    The internet suggested the hours could be on the meter itself - No sign when I checked but curiously I noticed that the time on the meter was about 2 hours and 10 minutes behind BST so this must mean that MY Economy7 hours are something like 02:40 - 09:40. Would they come and adjust the clock?
    • coffeehound
    • By coffeehound 29th Apr 19, 6:19 PM
    • 2,787 Posts
    • 4,745 Thanks
    coffeehound
    • #7
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:19 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:19 PM
    From posts on here, apparently some dual-rate systems do keep the same switching times despite the DST changes. But most do effectively shift an hour as you suggest.

    The first thing to do with a dual rate meter is to actually watch when the rate changes occur (for both GMT and BST). Never trust the energy co to tell you; they simply don’t know.
    • palman
    • By palman 29th Apr 19, 6:24 PM
    • 80 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    palman
    • #8
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:24 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:24 PM
    don't worry i will be doing that in the morning
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 29th Apr 19, 6:32 PM
    • 2,365 Posts
    • 2,034 Thanks
    Carrot007
    • #9
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:32 PM
    • #9
    • 29th Apr 19, 6:32 PM
    The internet seems to suggest that different suppliers have different hours
    Originally posted by IainRae

    Nope. It's all on the area you live in.


    Also areas can have many(many many) different times.


    E7 can also be provided with split times (and hour or two on peak in the midele of the night) (this is legacy and not given to new customers I believe).



    Scotland get 8.5 Hours (or a supposedly a preset ammount depending on the weather on teleswitched).
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 29th Apr 19, 6:43 PM
    • 15,967 Posts
    • 22,341 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    Ours has remained at 1-8 am for 20 years despite several changes of supplier over the years including E-on. Radio switch.

    There is a loud click when it changes.
    Last edited by Gloomendoom; 29-04-2019 at 6:47 PM.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain
    • Flt. Lt. Biggles
    • By Flt. Lt. Biggles 29th Apr 19, 6:44 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    Flt. Lt. Biggles
    Nope. It's all on the area you live in.


    Also areas can have many(many many) different times.


    E7 can also be provided with split times (and hour or two on peak in the midele of the night) (this is legacy and not given to new customers I believe).
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    There is one region that has the 7 hours of cheap rate split into two (a 2 hour and a 5 hour). IIirc, that's one of the two Scottish regions
    I wasn't aware that it had changed for new customers, but you may be right on that.


    Scotland get 8.5 Hours (or a supposedly a preset ammount depending on the weather on teleswitched).
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    That's not Economy 7
    Economy 7 allows for 7 hours of low rate electricity per day, as the name implies.
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 29th Apr 19, 6:54 PM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 505 Thanks
    Dandytf
    Thanks OP
    I'm due to switch to Bulb from sse. 11th May.
    Though on Bulb site Eco7 times for North Scotland -All meters have different times.
    I.e. no times for region 17-though I haven't called them yet to ask.
    Meanwhile after being with SP for lots of years I switched to sse early 2018.
    Though I noticed kitchen hot water heater control didn't switch off until 08:15 Bst-not sure if it comes on midnight or 1a.m. As I don't think it was 11 p.m.
    I. Have made the effort to start washer dryer a while later sometimes after 10 p. Or 11 p.m.
    My sse usage day-high rate/night-low rate usage has been almost 50/50% which is fine.
    I never questioned eco7 times with SP just used what I needed anytime though was home a lot less than what I have been since 2017.
    I'm going let Bulb switch take place, enter meter readings and give them a call to check eco7 times.
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2019 9880paid. 75%approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
    Mid 2019-Virgin Money e-saver reward 18 -252 Uk pounds
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 29th Apr 19, 7:00 PM
    • 2,365 Posts
    • 2,034 Thanks
    Carrot007
    That's not Economy 7
    Economy 7 allows for 7 hours of low rate electricity per day, as the name implies.
    Originally posted by Flt. Lt. Biggles

    OK, to be specific, there is NO E7 Tarrif in Scotland. It is 8.5 hours (excepting the teleswitched weirdness called White Meter). People still call it E7 though. Really go look up the timeswitched periods for any of the tarrifs or find anything called Economy 7 in MDD.


    (unless there has been a new SSC in the last couple of years since I looked).


    (Also people may get E7 fitted by the non Scottish suppliers programming the meter like that but is certainly is not compliant).


    (Happy to be proved wrong).
    Last edited by Carrot007; 29-04-2019 at 7:03 PM.
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 29th Apr 19, 7:02 PM
    • 6,492 Posts
    • 4,870 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    E6/7/10 what is the issue ? You are getting 6 or 7 or 10 hours in 24 at the cheap[er] rate.

    I'm on E7

    In E10 Scotland [comfort plus]terms, three blocks [all electricity at cheap rate] so 00.00 - 05.00 then 13.00 - 16.00 then 20.00 - 22.00. I'm in England [Area 15] on Northern Powergrid one of the 14 areas in the national distribution network.

    Get in touch with your supplier, and ask. Don't confuse / conflate tariff and area code.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
    • Flt. Lt. Biggles
    • By Flt. Lt. Biggles 29th Apr 19, 7:10 PM
    • 153 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    Flt. Lt. Biggles
    OK, to be specific, there is NO E7 Tarrif in Scotland.
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    Yes there is

    (Happy to be proved wrong).
    Originally posted by Carrot007
    https://www.npower.com/idc/groups/wcms_content/@wcms/documents/digitalassets/economy_7_tariff.pdf

    Read it and weep

    (although that indicates the split E7 hours apply to the SE of England - not sure why I thought it was a Scottish region )
    Last edited by Flt. Lt. Biggles; 29-04-2019 at 7:13 PM.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 29th Apr 19, 7:35 PM
    • 98,597 Posts
    • 67,014 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Ours is a new digital meter as the previous digital meter (same model) drifted by more than 2 hours. The current one is 15 minutes off the 12.30 to 7.30 GMT. And it doesnt change for BST. So, currently its 1.45 to 8.45.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 3rd May 19, 8:14 PM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 505 Thanks
    Dandytf
    I can enter bulb meter readings from Monday.
    Though I thought Id'e try finding eco7 times by region.
    I don't have the required top centre three digit code on meter.
    I do have SP Tele-switch which doesn't give me any further info to work from.
    Think I'll try calling Bulb CS next week.
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2019 9880paid. 75%approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
    Mid 2019-Virgin Money e-saver reward 18 -252 Uk pounds
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 3rd May 19, 9:25 PM
    • 4,530 Posts
    • 2,895 Thanks
    matelodave
    There's only one sure way to find out when your meter switches between peak and off peak and that's to watch it when it switches over and check the actual time that it does it.

    Asking your supplier is probably a waste of effort especially if the timing is controlled by the meter's own clock or external timeswitch both of which can drift out, sometimes by several hours

    Even some teleswitched stuff is slightly staggered as I guess that the power generation network would have a bit of a problem if several million storage heaters all switched on at exactly the same time. It's not the supplier (ie the company that takes your money) that controls the teleswitch, it's the power generation company. I

    t really doesn't matter a great deal who your supplier is, the timing wont change unless you end up with a smart meter which may or may not get it's time from the comms network or it's own internal real time clock.

    You need to physically check it yourself if you are concerned about the accuracy of switching times
    Last edited by matelodave; 03-05-2019 at 9:33 PM.
    Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 3rd May 19, 9:36 PM
    • 98,597 Posts
    • 67,014 Thanks
    dunstonh
    You need to physically check it yourself if you are concerned about the accuracy of switching times
    And its worth doing it periodically as they do seem to drift. Even the electronic ones.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Dandytf
    • By Dandytf 3rd May 19, 9:44 PM
    • 2,167 Posts
    • 505 Thanks
    Dandytf
    Thanks
    I don;t think I have the strength to watch which meter spins tonight.
    I suspect it could be anytime from 23;00hrs-whatever start time.
    sc dmp 2012 13k Jan 2019 9880paid. 75%approx.
    Mid 2018 Help2save 50 uk pounds per month
    Mid 2019-Virgin Money e-saver reward 18 -252 Uk pounds
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