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  • FIRST POST
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 2nd Jun 19, 7:22 PM
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    seven-day-weekend
    Dog Biting
    • #1
    • 2nd Jun 19, 7:22 PM
    Dog Biting 2nd Jun 19 at 7:22 PM
    My friend had a new dog a few months ago. She bought it from a private sale from a family who said they had to rehome him. I'm not sure how old he is, but he is a young dog, although not a puppy.

    When we went to see her today, she told us the dog bites and has bitten her son, his partner and the builder.

    As we were walking in (just walking, not talking to or looking at the dog), he nipped my husband's trousers several times.

    When I got up to go to the toilet, he jumped off the sofa and bit my leg. It hurt a bit, but I did not think he had punctured the skin. Then when we got up to go, he bit me again. He approached from the rear each time.

    I have got puncture holes in my leg, and bruising, and one of the bites has drawn blood. I am seeing the Doc tomorrow about a tetanus jab.

    My friend does try to discipline the dog, and he is not aggressive with her, in fact I think it is over-protection of her that is causing the trouble.

    She was very upset and although I have not suggested this, she is thinking of having the dog put down.

    TBH, I think if the behaviour can't be brought under control, then this is the best thing, it could be a child's face next time.

    He is this breed, if it is relevant: https://www.smalldogplace.com/chinese-crested-powderpuff.html

    Any ideas how she can train him to stop biting or is it terminal?
    Last edited by seven-day-weekend; 02-06-2019 at 7:24 PM.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
Page 1
    • MovingForwards
    • By MovingForwards 2nd Jun 19, 7:46 PM
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    MovingForwards
    • #2
    • 2nd Jun 19, 7:46 PM
    • #2
    • 2nd Jun 19, 7:46 PM
    Get a behaviourist to come to the house and do one2one training with her and the dog, as your friend will learn the most appropriate way of training.
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 2nd Jun 19, 7:54 PM
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    seven-day-weekend
    • #3
    • 2nd Jun 19, 7:54 PM
    • #3
    • 2nd Jun 19, 7:54 PM
    Get a behaviourist to come to the house and do one2one training with her and the dog, as your friend will learn the most appropriate way of training.
    Originally posted by MovingForwards
    She has tried that, it was 50 an hour and she said it has made no difference. She has stopped now.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • MovingForwards
    • By MovingForwards 2nd Jun 19, 7:56 PM
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    MovingForwards
    • #4
    • 2nd Jun 19, 7:56 PM
    • #4
    • 2nd Jun 19, 7:56 PM
    Then she needs a better behaviourist or it will escalate as you have seen!
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 2nd Jun 19, 8:03 PM
    • 32,873 Posts
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    seven-day-weekend
    • #5
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:03 PM
    • #5
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:03 PM
    I think you are right, it is the only thing now that she can try. She is going to ask the vet's advice about what to do next.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • elsien
    • By elsien 2nd Jun 19, 8:08 PM
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    elsien
    • #6
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:08 PM
    • #6
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:08 PM
    Your friend has to bear some responsibility for this - what's she doing giving the dog the opportunity to bite visitors if she knows it's aggressive?
    Mine would be on a houseline or crated if I couldnt trust him round guests.
    She needs to try another behaviourist, one that uses positive methods. It's not about disciplining it, it's about teaching alternative more acceptable ways to behave.
    Last edited by elsien; 02-06-2019 at 8:43 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 2nd Jun 19, 8:19 PM
    • 32,873 Posts
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    seven-day-weekend
    • #7
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:19 PM
    • #7
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:19 PM
    Your friend has to bear some responsibility for this - what's she doing giving the dog the opportunity to bite visitors if she knows it's aggressive?
    Mine would be on a houseline or crated if I coujdnt trust him round guests.
    She needs to try another behaviourist, one that uses positive methods. It's not about disciplining it, it's about teaching alternative more acceptable ways to behave.
    Originally posted by elsien
    I must admit I thought this myself.

    I am particularly bothered that he jumped off the sofa when I got to leave the room and ran after me and bit the back of my leg. There is no way the dog felt cornered or fearful, I didn't even speak to him or attempt to react to him in any way, thinking it was best to let him come to me in his own time if he wished. I'd gone past him by the time he decided to bite me. I don't have a dog of my own, through choice, but I do know how to behave around them.

    My friend is 80, she lost her husband nine months ago, and I think this little dog is something to cuddle and comfort. She also has an aged labrador, who is perfectly well behaved.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • onwards&upwards
    • By onwards&upwards 2nd Jun 19, 8:38 PM
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    onwards&upwards
    • #8
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:38 PM
    • #8
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:38 PM
    Sounds like this is too much for her and she isn’t the right person to take it on.

    I’d advise her to get in touch with reputable local rescues, in the right hands the dog could be sorted in a matter of weeks if it’s only young.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 2nd Jun 19, 8:40 PM
    • 19,352 Posts
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    elsien
    • #9
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:40 PM
    • #9
    • 2nd Jun 19, 8:40 PM
    I must admit I thought this myself.

    I am particularly bothered that he jumped off the sofa when I got to leave the room and ran after me and bit the back of my leg. There is no way the dog felt cornered or fearful, I didn't even speak to him or attempt to react to him in any way, thinking it was best to let him come to me in his own time if he wished. I'd gone past him by the time he decided to bite me. I don't have a dog of my own, through choice, but I do know how to behave around them.

    My friend is 80, she lost her husband nine months ago, and I think this little dog is something to cuddle and comfort. She also has an aged labrador, who is perfectly well behaved.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    Poor dog. I suspect your friend is treating it inconsistently and inadvertently making any pre-existing issues worse. Then the dog gets put down because the owner can't manage.

    How committed is she to putting the work in? A starting point would be not letting it have the opportunity to bite people, but if she's not willing to even do that despite saying she can't manage him, there's not a lot of hope to put things right.

    Do you know her well enough to gently point this out to her, and suggest letting him have a go 3 times in one visit isn't great, and what would she do differently next time? It's not fair on the dog.
    Last edited by elsien; 02-06-2019 at 8:42 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 2nd Jun 19, 8:45 PM
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    Mojisola
    My friend is 80, she lost her husband nine months ago, and I think this little dog is something to cuddle and comfort. She also has an aged labrador, who is perfectly well behaved.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    Sounds as if she is treating the dog like a cuddly toy instead of a young animal which needs teaching good behaviour.

    This won't end well unless she is able to change.
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 2nd Jun 19, 8:49 PM
    • 32,873 Posts
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    seven-day-weekend
    Poor dog. I suspect your friend is treating it inconsistently and inadvertently making any pre-existing issues worse. Then the dog gets put down because the owner can't manage.

    How committed is she to putting the work in? A starting point would be not letting it have the opportunity to bite people, but if she's not willing to even do that despite saying she can't manage him, there's not a lot of hope to put things right.

    Do you know her well enough to gently point this out to her, and suggest letting him have a go 3 times in one visit isn't great, and what would she do differently next time? It's not fair on the dog.
    Originally posted by elsien
    She is willing to do that, by putting him in the other room, but as she says herself that is not addressing the problem. Although she is 80 she is not a frail old lady, she has all her wits about her. I did notice that if he growled or raised his lip, she pulled him to her and stroked him - I know this was to stop him jumping off and biting, but I think to the dog that is reinforcing the bad behaviour. He is getting positive attention for growling.

    She is mortified, she seems more upset about him biting me than anyone else, she was in tears on the phone.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 2nd Jun 19, 8:51 PM
    • 32,873 Posts
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    seven-day-weekend
    Personally I think the rescue idea is the best, if they will take a biter.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • elsien
    • By elsien 2nd Jun 19, 8:54 PM
    • 19,352 Posts
    • 49,120 Thanks
    elsien
    She is willing to do that, by putting him in the other room, but as she says herself that is not addressing the problem. Although she is 80 she is not a frail old lady, she has all her wits about her. I did notice that if he growled or raised his lip, she pulled him to her and stroked him - I know this was to stop him jumping off and biting, but I think to the dog that is reinforcing the bad behaviour. He is getting positive attention for growling.

    She is mortified, she seems more upset about him biting me than anyone else, she was in tears on the phone.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    Letting him stay and bite you isn't addressing the problem either, and you're right that she is reinforcing the behaviour. It's no use crying about him biting when it's happened before but she's still letting him loose to do it again. She'd be better teaching a settle command and having him on the lead while guests are there so she can reinforce sensible behaviour and intervene before he gets a bite in.
    Tell her to look for a trainer who has proper qualifications.
    These
    http://www.apdt.co.uk
    Or similar - there's another one but I don't remember the name.
    Last edited by elsien; 02-06-2019 at 8:56 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 2nd Jun 19, 8:56 PM
    • 32,873 Posts
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    seven-day-weekend
    Thanks all for your help, I will pass on the advice and the links.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • onwards&upwards
    • By onwards&upwards 2nd Jun 19, 9:02 PM
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    onwards&upwards
    Personally I think the rescue idea is the best, if they will take a biter.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    Lots will, try as many as possible, big and small.
    • sheramber
    • By sheramber 3rd Jun 19, 5:41 PM
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    sheramber
    It sounds like the family were passing on their problem dog.

    The advice a behaviourist gives needs to be followed by your friend for it to work. There is no magic solution to behavioural problems. It takes time and dedication.

    A rescue that has access to a behaviourist would be the best choice. There is a breed rescue who could be approached as well.
    • TomokoAdhami
    • By TomokoAdhami 6th Jun 19, 6:52 PM
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    TomokoAdhami
    Proper training and use of the collar or harness could keep him away from bitting.
    • Soot2006
    • By Soot2006 8th Jun 19, 1:00 PM
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    Soot2006
    What a sad situation for your friend to be in. Firstly, is the dog what she wants/needs in every other way?


    If not, then I think it's time to find him a more suitable home.



    If he is what she wants the rest of the time:



    Firstly, I'd recommend joining a local positive (R+) dog training group and starting weekly classes. Be honest about the nipping and maybe have a one to one before the first class. Consistent training (of the owner ) will really help instill a better relationship between them. Get recommendations from local dog owners, Facebook, etc. Avoid any club that uses aversive methods or too many dogs per class.



    Secondly, avoid avoid avoid the situation. Replace the idea of "biting" with "anxiety" and don't put the dog in that position. The dog needs to be protected (from itself) and that means not being able to access people in order to nip them. Teach the dog a safe space - crate or a whole room. Lots of advice for teaching settle online. Dog can go to his safe space when visitors are in the house. My own terrier is NEVER allowed to greet visitors. He stays in the kitchen for 30 minutes and then IF HE IS CALM, he can leave the kitchen on a LEAD, and be in the same room as the visitors. He doesn't get to approach them and they don't get to interact with him. When he's been around someone a few times, we up the ante with reward based proximity training and "say hello" training (for him, that just means looking at a person and NOT reacting - after some time, he can go and sniff. I would never allow him to approach and sniff someone he cannot be relaxed near or someone I don't trust myself!)


    Finally, join Reactive Dogs (UK) Facebook group for some layperson advice on how to use counter conditioning to help this dog in the long term. Incidentally, they also hold a database of the best trainers, recommended by users.



    Good luck; they're usually worth it .
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