"Looking for a PV and EV solution"

Martyn1981 · 12 March 2018 at 6:56PM

Coastalwatch wrote: »

Well I've progressed further and would like to settle on a total of 26 panels. 24 on the SSE roof and 2 on the vertical wall of the WSW gable end, total 7.41kwp made up of 6.84 on the roof and 0.57 at gable end.
I have one supplier who has no problem with this, using one inverter while the other is insisting that two are required. He has even sent me a Solaredge download showing 2 x SE3500H inverters.
Strangely when only 24 panels are required of 6.84kwp one is acceptable.

From my understanding of info gleaned from your goodselves then I believe that the SE6000H inverter should cope adequately. While the total panel output might be 7.41. Because they are in different orientations, 90 degrees offset, then this figure will not be seen and with only 80% efficiency once they are hot(as Martyn suggests) then even less likely. From the SolarEdge spec sheet for the SE6000H unit then max DC input is 9300w.
I'm struggling to see a problem with a single inverter but if you know differently then I'm happy to be shown the error of my ways to date!

26 panels, are you mad? ...... hang on, I've got 26 ..... yep, mad!

First off, don't trust anything I say. I'm reciting stuff I've heard, read and seen, but that doesn't mean I'm right. The SE6000HD looks (to me) to be about perfect. It can output 6kW and input 9.3kW, so that seems ideal, but let's check.

Let's forget the vertical panels, with such a different size, orientation and pitch, I think it's safe to just discuss the main 6.84kWp.

So, at 80% sustained output, that's about 5.5kW, or at 85%, about 5.8kW, so that seems acceptable. There will be times when output would be higher, but I honestly don't think it adds up 'to a hill of beans' - interested what others think though.

Also, I'd have thought one inverter is better than two, less cost, less replacement cost in 20yrs (if it fails) and probably slightly more efficient than 2 smaller inverters.

So ....... I think the SE6000HD is the right answer, but does the installer know more than us, he/she should. So are we missing anything?

I'd be tempted to e-mail SolarEdge themselves or ring the UK offices and ask.

Relatively simple question, detail the panel type, the number, the orientations/pitches, and ask if the SE6000HD is suitable, and perhaps also ask if two SE3500HD's would be ok/better.

Obviously, whatever you hear back, please post it on here so we can all learn and others can share too.

Sound like a plan?

Martyn1981 · 12 March 2018 at 7:00PM

Coastalwatch wrote: »

Well I've progressed further and would like to settle on a total of 26 panels.

Hiya, does this mean you have been OK'd for the bigger system by the DNO, are you hoping/expecting to get 6kW export permission?

Coastalwatch · 13 March 2018 at 12:16AM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

26 panels, are you mad? ...... hang on, I've got 26 ..... yep, mad!

Let's forget the vertical panels, with such a different size, orientation and pitch, I think it's safe to just discuss the main 6.84kWp.

So, at 80% sustained output, that's about 5.5kW, or at 85%, about 5.8kW, so that seems acceptable. There will be times when output would be higher, but I honestly don't think it adds up 'to a hill of beans' - interested what others think though.

Also, I'd have thought one inverter is better than two, less cost, less replacement cost in 20yrs (if it fails) and probably slightly more efficient than 2 smaller inverters.

So ....... I think the SE6000HD is the right answer, but does the installer know more than us, he/she should. So are we missing anything?

I'd be tempted to e-mail SolarEdge themselves or ring the UK offices and ask.

Relatively simple question, detail the panel type, the number, the orientations/pitches, and ask if the SE6000HD is suitable, and perhaps also ask if two SE3500HD's would be ok/better.

Obviously, whatever you hear back, please post it on here so we can all learn and others can share too.

Sound like a plan?

Thanks Martyn, I reckon it takes one to know one!:D

As suggested I've emailed the uk office and will post their response verbatim. Whatever the outcome I hope they declare a positive conclusion one way or the other. Either it meets specification or it doesn't!

Struggling to get quotes for installation of ASHP, but suspect that it's not too critical if it's conducted in isolation to the panels!

pile-o-stone · 13 March 2018 at 1:53PM

We have 23 panels installed. 16 x 250w and 6 x 300w. If I were buying now I think I'd go with the most efficient I could find, which I think is about 360w to 370w? If you fitted 26 x 365w panels (to split the difference) you'd have a potential generation of 9.49kw which would be fantastic.

Obviously you'd need to get permission from your DNO for that much generation, which could involve a payment to 'upgrade' the grid. We are currently in negotiation with ours and he has said that we can pay £1500 and will be allowed to generate 10Kwh. This is the maximum you can generate on a single phase mains supply.

We currently have a 3.68kwh E/W inverter attached to the 4Kw panels and a 1.5Kw inverter attached to the 1.8Kw panels. We therefor have a potential maximum generation of 5.18kw so we can install almost as much again before we hit the 10Kw limit.

I now just need to get the missus to agree to more solar.

Coastalwatch · 15 March 2018 at 5:05PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

First off, don't trust anything I say. I'm reciting stuff I've heard, read and seen, but that doesn't mean I'm right. The SE6000HD looks (to me) to be about perfect. It can output 6kW and input 9.3kW, so that seems ideal, but let's check.

Let's forget the vertical panels, with such a different size, orientation and pitch, I think it's safe to just discuss the main 6.84kWp.

So, at 80% sustained output, that's about 5.5kW, or at 85%, about 5.8kW, so that seems acceptable. There will be times when output would be higher, but I honestly don't think it adds up 'to a hill of beans' - interested what others think though.

Also, I'd have thought one inverter is better than two, less cost, less replacement cost in 20yrs (if it fails) and probably slightly more efficient than 2 smaller inverters.

So ....... I think the SE6000HD is the right answer, but does the installer know more than us, he/she should. So are we missing anything?

I'd be tempted to e-mail SolarEdge themselves or ring the UK offices and ask.

Relatively simple question, detail the panel type, the number, the orientations/pitches, and ask if the SE6000HD is suitable, and perhaps also ask if two SE3500HD's would be ok/better.

Obviously, whatever you hear back, please post it on here so we can all learn and others can share too.

Sound like a plan?

Hi Martyn, as suggested I emailed SolarEdge uk directly supplying most of the information required. They replied in one day stating that in all probability it would, but they would need the actual spec of the panels to bottom it out. Supplied that info along with the requirement for the two additional vertical panels and they replied again in one day. Not only is the SE6000H suitable for 24 panels but also 26. In addition this was supported with a couple of SolarEdge documents showing this to be the case!

Go to the top of the class Martyn, it seems you are shooting straight from the hip and not from any other part of the anatomy. Thank you.:j
So that's most of the i's dotted and t's crossed(the supplier has also agreed to include bird proofing) with regards to panel array installation.

Just the ASHP, EV and reverse charging(v2g) to sort now. Boy, what a journey!

Coastalwatch · 15 March 2018 at 6:38PM

Coastalwatch wrote: »

In the meantime I have to come to terms with actually purchasing an EV. Not easy with a lifetimes experience of the oily stuff. But slowly does it and I have to confess to booking a test drive in one of the new Leaf's. Just testing mind!

Just testing indeed! Well it was, but only just. We were shown the new Leaf Techna yesterday and I have to be confess to being well impressed. Of course, it was Nissan's top of the range model and any conclusions I draw are based upon driving our eleven year old Focus Ghia for the last ten years, so perhaps it's no surprise! It seemed strange at first, as when slowing down, my left foot automatically kept aiming for the clutch pedal that wasn't there! Got used to it after a while and even gave a try to their E pedal which incorporates engine braking/battery regeneration and brings the car to a comfortably controlled halt. There's not even any need to apply the hand brake(switch) when stationary. Take off from was smooth, with and without the E pedal, right up to the national speed limit. Having arrived back at the depot somebody had parked a caged trolly right in front of the parking space, making for a tight reverse manouvre, the rear pointing camera proved very useful although I still relied on the wing mirror for a clear line of vision. Mission accomplished.
I also discovered that the new Leaf is capable of reverse charging(v2g) when xStorage comes into being soon!
Hoping this was also available through Nissan I was disappointed to learn that it was only available through a third party, Eaton. It utilises part worn Nissan batteries with a price thought to be in the region of £5k! At this point my interest wained dramatically. Why on earth would a company assume that people will fork out another £5k for a recharging station and some part worn batteries! Afraid I rather showed my disappointment and going from nearly ordering an EV we thanked the salesman for his time and made our way home. I'm not sure who was most disappointed, us or him at missing the sale!
I did email him later, again thanking him for his time and saying how impressed we were with the car, it was merely this one fly in the ointment causing us to hold back.
I trawled websites upon our return trying to gain more info on xStorage such as cost and release dates but with little success. All I could find on the Nissan website was a form to complete registering a declaration of interest and seeking a payment of £50 for the priviledge! No prizes for guessing my course of action, or lack of, there.
I did discover another account of how Nissan can now supply an array of 6 Solar panels priced at £3881, suitable for the average house, apparently. xStorageHome could be added bringing the total to £7635, thus making this second item £3754(Not sure if this included the batteries) as it stated further on that an xStorageHome battery pack was £6,446. It didn't even state what capacity it was.

Now bearing in mind that the Leaf Visia retails around £22k, ignoring the fact that a car is also included a 40kwh battery pack works out close £500/kwh. Assuming the cost is split 50/50 car and battery then say £250kwh!

I think my take on matters is this. If I have a 40kwh battery standing in the drive overnight why on earth should I want to fork out for another set to store in the garage! Is it just me who seems to be out of step with the cost and direction recharging seems to be taking?:o

Coastalwatch · 28 March 2018 at 12:37PM

Coastalwatch wrote: »

Now bearing in mind that the Leaf Visia retails around £22k, ignoring the fact that a car is also included a 40kwh battery pack works out close £500/kwh. Assuming the cost is split 50/50 car and battery then say £250kwh!

I think my take on matters is this. If I have a 40kwh battery standing in the drive overnight why on earth should I want to fork out for another set to store in the garage! Is it just me who seems to be out of step with the cost and direction recharging seems to be taking?:o

Apparently Nissan are launching a new program to recycle old Leaf battery packs:-
https://electrek.co/2018/03/26/nissan-leaf-battery-pack-replacement-program/

Further information is given here on the price of new and recycled Nissan battery packs. For instance a new 24kwh battery is quoted at $6200 and 40kwh at $7800.
A recycled pack is quoted at $2850 although it doesn't state what size this is. Even if it's 24kwh it equates to approx $120/kwh or around £85/kwh.

60kwh batteries are due next year for the 2019 model Leafs.

Martyn1981 · 28 March 2018 at 3:57PM

CW - Just out of curiosity, have you heard of 'rapidgate'?

It's been noticed this last week that the latest Leaf's, with the 40kWh pack seem to do something 'odd' if you do too many rapid charges in a short period. Some folk have found that by the 3rd (or so) rapid charge on a long journey, the Leaf charges at 22kW not 50kW.

No-one is quite sure why, whether it's a fault with the chargers, cars or a deliberate move by Nissan as they haven't put thermal management on the 40kWh pack, so it may get damaged if charged too fast too often.

This should only really impact those planning .... say .... regular 500 mile trips.

Coastalwatch · 28 March 2018 at 8:53PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

CW - Just out of curiosity, have you heard of 'rapidgate'?

It's been noticed this last week that the latest Leaf's, with the 40kWh pack seem to do something 'odd' if you do too many rapid charges in a short period. Some folk have found that by the 3rd (or so) rapid charge on a long journey, the Leaf charges at 22kW not 50kW.

No-one is quite sure why, whether it's a fault with the chargers, cars or a deliberate move by Nissan as they haven't put thermal management on the 40kWh pack, so it may get damaged if charged too fast too often.

This should only really impact those planning .... say .... regular 500 mile trips.

Thanks Martyn, that's certainly news to me. I should think of some addititonal concern it being exhibited at this time of year. Probably not too much of an issue for us with localised journeys only planned. But better to be forewarned of possible issues arising.

Have to confess that having learned today that a 60kwh battery is planned for the 2019 model then I wouldn't mind waiting until then before making a purchase. Unless of course the 2018 model can be upgraded!

Your post is very timely and much appreciated.

pile-o-stone · 29 March 2018 at 11:19AM

Information on the 60 kWh battery pack.

https://electrek.co/2018/01/04/nissan-leaf-2019-specs-range-charging/

"Looking for a PV and EV solution"

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