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  • FIRST POST
    • Mark Bedford
    • By Mark Bedford 27th Nov 18, 5:03 AM
    • 102Posts
    • 25Thanks
    Mark Bedford
    TIF Group - High Court, Martin Lewis likely witness, the Times legal suit vs TIF
    • #1
    • 27th Nov 18, 5:03 AM
    TIF Group - High Court, Martin Lewis likely witness, the Times legal suit vs TIF 27th Nov 18 at 5:03 AM
    Appalling story from Turkey but we see reports from Crete, Vietnam, S America and SE Asia a lot as well.
    TIF Group (Travel Insurance Facilities based in Kings Hill Kent)

    Husband returns to the hospital on day two - turns out he has SEPSIS and his organs start to shut down. Ends up in intensive care (ICU)....the hospital says it will not accept TIF Group insurance (Alpha, Holidaysafe, Covered2Go, Insuracewith etc - see UK1 post) because "THEY OWE TOO MUCH MONEY".

    The bottom line is that wife decided that is was better to pay HERSELF for an air ambulance costing £27k back to the UK rather than the hospital take him off the ventilator delaying the flight and racking up more bills without insurance since the hospital would not talk with TIF because they owe "too much money" they say. This tallies with a recent TripAdvisor report saying no hospital would accept TIF in Turkey.

    WORSE STILL, and it alludes to what is in the FCA dossier the Times referred to, TIF tried to invalidate her out of her policy. They told her, in the middle of this nightmare, that the policy was invalid because it was a "PRE-EXISTING CONDITION".....is that so? Sepsis.....I think you would find he would be dead or are we just stupid policyholders. Astonishing isn't it.

    Similar story in Thailand around the same time. We will ignore TIF trying to move the man to another hospital. The doctor objected saying his heart attack could really kill him. Surprise, surprise...The hospital REFUSED THE POLICY saying they were owed money going back several years. The copy of the letter is out there on the Times Twitter. Threatened with the police for non-payment. TIF were not finished though....tried for FOUR days to make him fly home economy but relented on day four.

    On their arrival back home...sent flowers.

    We are hearing on other sites that the Whistleblower said to the FCA that Thai hospitals wrote to the Britsh Embassy trying to get TIF banned from SE Asia. We have seen unpaid bills from Singapore with one poor fellow being pursued by the hospital despite TIF saying in emails it had been paid....elsewhere in the world too and we read the other day Crete and Vietnam added to the growing global list.

    We also see people moved from a hospital WITH an operating facility to one where TIF was told was full....UNOPERATED ON FOR 13 DAY....ANOTHER 11 days in Malaysia.

    I want to see this dossier I must say. Perhaps people who have had similar experiences should report them to the regulator. That was advice of the CEO of Which I believe on her seeing these reports.
    Last edited by Mark Bedford; 24-04-2019 at 2:16 PM. Reason: added word
Page 1
    • LadyDee
    • By LadyDee 27th Nov 18, 7:46 PM
    • 3,861 Posts
    • 4,161 Thanks
    LadyDee
    • #2
    • 27th Nov 18, 7:46 PM
    • #2
    • 27th Nov 18, 7:46 PM
    As regards sepsis, my understanding is (a friend was hospitalised for weeks) that there are symptoms before diagnosis, so the husband must have had the illness prior to actually feeling ill enough to be admitted to hospital, things he would not have realised were serious and maybe just feeling a little bit under the weather. So, yes, actually it could be claimed it was a pre-existing condition which he had before embarking on his holiday.
    • Mark Bedford
    • By Mark Bedford 27th Nov 18, 8:34 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Mark Bedford
    • #3
    • 27th Nov 18, 8:34 PM
    • #3
    • 27th Nov 18, 8:34 PM
    LadyDee....a pre-exiting condition it is not for any sustained period and SECONDLY, you have to know you have it and not disclose it......what on earth are you taking about.
    • garth549
    • By garth549 28th Nov 18, 12:43 PM
    • 350 Posts
    • 164 Thanks
    garth549
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 18, 12:43 PM
    • #4
    • 28th Nov 18, 12:43 PM
    You can go from being perfectly fine with no symptoms to passing out through sepsis within 12 hours as happened with my Father.
    • LadyDee
    • By LadyDee 1st Dec 18, 7:01 AM
    • 3,861 Posts
    • 4,161 Thanks
    LadyDee
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 18, 7:01 AM
    • #5
    • 1st Dec 18, 7:01 AM
    LadyDee....a pre-exiting condition it is not for any sustained period and SECONDLY, you have to know you have it and not disclose it......what on earth are you taking about.
    Originally posted by Mark Bedford
    What I'm talking about is what I said - it is possible to have the early stages of the condition without being aware of it, i.e. pre-existing. As we don't know the terms of the policy we don't know how the insurance company are choosing to interpret pre-existing. It could well be that the insurance company is trying to use being unaware of the early stages as an excuse for terming it as pre-existing.

    I didn't suggest in any way that they were right to do this. I am sure an appeal to the insurance ombudsman stands a really good chance of succeeding. The only thing is, the company's own complaints procedures need to be exhausted first.
    • uk1
    • By uk1 1st Dec 18, 9:13 AM
    • 1,260 Posts
    • 883 Thanks
    uk1
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 18, 9:13 AM
    • #6
    • 1st Dec 18, 9:13 AM
    What I'm talking about is what I said - it is possible to have the early stages of the condition without being aware of it, i.e. pre-existing. As we don't know the terms of the policy we don't know how the insurance company are choosing to interpret pre-existing. It could well be that the insurance company is trying to use being unaware of the early stages as an excuse for terming it as pre-existing.

    I didn't suggest in any way that they were right to do this. I am sure an appeal to the insurance ombudsman stands a really good chance of succeeding. The only thing is, the company's own complaints procedures need to be exhausted first.
    Originally posted by LadyDee

    That was exactly how I read your post.

    In youre previous note you were contradicting the OP and you didn't say "possible" you said "must have" with respect to the insureds knowledge of the condition and clearly implied that they failed to declare it. In your latest post you said that "you were sure" an appeal would "stand a good chance".

    If you re-read your earlier note you will see how it clearly gave the impression that you were defending TIF's rejection of the claim and were placing the fault on the insured.
  • archived user
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 18, 10:56 AM
    • #7
    • 1st Dec 18, 10:56 AM
    Apart from minor communication issues I can’t fault them when my daughter had an accident in Kenya they arranged replacment medication when she ran out and sent nurses to escort her from her hospital bed and arranged an ambulance from Heathrow to home .
    The first communication from them once I made the claim was a call to see what I had declared luckily for us I had declared everything maybe Op something at this stage made them think it was pre existing.
    • Mark Bedford
    • By Mark Bedford 4th Apr 19, 12:45 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Mark Bedford
    • #8
    • 4th Apr 19, 12:45 PM
    Travel Insurance this Summer - the Times COURT APPEARANCE (for its readers) versus TIF Group
    • #8
    • 4th Apr 19, 12:45 PM
    Travel insurance, the Times newspaper, alleged FCA fraud dossier, GMC (general Medical Council) investigation...

    As you may know the Times article reported that a massive dossier had been submitted to the Financial Conduct Authority alleging fraud in addition to the GMC investigations of TIF medical representatives. The Times and TIF are going to court about this.

    It is quite obviously a fight by TIF to try and close this story we assume, unless they believe the Times researched the article over months, held it for the FCA's benefit in their eyes and then wrote a load of rubbish. In the meantime the appalling stories come through. People having to pay their own medical bills for broken pelvis's and hearts etc. All from a company that offers cheap insurance and states they can cut medical bills by "75%"......erhhh....how?

    TIF often refer concerned people to their "glossy" in response to the Times.

    WE HAVE WITNESSED FIRST-HAND THE IMMORAL AND UNETHICAL PRACTICES AROUND THE WORLD AND OUR MISSION IS SIMPLE: WE ARE COMMITTED TO DOING WHAT IS RIGHT BY YOU.

    'THE MORAL INSURANCE COMPANY'
    Sounds unlikely, but it’s what we do and have been doing for over twenty years. We operate differently, with very good reason and that is the best possible chance of good clinical outcome for our customer.

    All we can say is don't give up the day job. It's all you need to read basically.

    If you want to conceptually know why the Times is going to court read this job review from a former claims handler at TIF (Alpha, Holidaysafe, Insurancewith, CoveredtoGo, Puffin, Flexicover, Boots). Perhaps a reader of this could write to Richard Smiith at TIF to ask for an explanation.


    Claims (Former Employee) – Kings Hill, Kent – 12 March 2019
    I am 22 years old, TIF was my first insurance job/office job from school. I worked at TIF group for 18 months, I was in the claims department and at first you think its a good opportunity and a good introduction to insurance but very soon the true colours start to show. Terrible training of which is mainly complied of teaching you to lie to the customers which can be really demoralising when you are dealing with Injury/Death/Disease.

    Major lack of support from management across ALL departments, meetings are an absolute travesty as managers are always saying what you want to hear but the problems would never be fixed. High amounts of pressure, NO support from management.

    They not only lie to their employees but they lie to the underwriting company URV as well about figures and stats because they are under achieving constantly and then put more stress on the staff about numbers when management are not looking at the actual issues!

    It was not a good foundation to insurance it made me extremely stressed with no support from management at all. If you get a job offer, decline it and go and work for one of the bigger names in insurance as you will learn so much more.

    AVOID AT ALL COSTS, they are being investigated by the FCA.
    Wait a bit longer and find a proper company that do things by the books.

    https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Travel-Insurance-Facilities/reviews?fcountry=GB&floc=Kings+Hill
    Last edited by Mark Bedford; 04-04-2019 at 12:50 PM. Reason: make better
    • uk1
    • By uk1 4th Apr 19, 3:25 PM
    • 1,260 Posts
    • 883 Thanks
    uk1
    • #9
    • 4th Apr 19, 3:25 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Apr 19, 3:25 PM
    I check the review page every few days and I’m alarmed that TIF are permitted to continue what is so blatantly clearly is a fraud. There are far too many people suffering the same experience and consequences for this not to be so. It says much about our misplaced trust and reliance on regulation.

    https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.tifgroup.co.uk


    .
    Last edited by uk1; 04-04-2019 at 6:52 PM.
    • Mark Bedford
    • By Mark Bedford 4th Apr 19, 4:05 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Mark Bedford
    What's the insurance for if you have pay yourself? Another case - not even close to the serious ones.

    Don't worry uk1 the FCA are gathering information on TIF at THE HIGHEST level. They know exactly what they are dealing with but they have to go to court and can't go without being fully armed they would say.

    Tried to send me to a local hospital in Cambodia

    Paid nearly £70 for the top travel insurance with Alpha for my backpacking trip. I got very ill from a complication of Dengue Fever and Alpha were beyond useless. I had dengue fever diagnosed and was super sick, although, at this point, it wasn't critically bad. Alpha told my boyfriend on the phone that they'd only cover me at the local hospital in Cambodia. The hotel manager where I was staying told me DO NOT go there, and that he would never go there if sick. Instead, I booked a flight to Bangkok as I had a bad feeling something was very very wrong. At BK airport, I collapsed and starting bleeding heavily from my nose and mouth. I had to be taken by ambulance (there's a 50% chance of death with the complication I'd developed) to a hospital - I told them to take me to an international one. BF rang Alpha and explained the situation, again they said they would only cover local public hospitals and couldn't confirm or deny whether they'd cover my treatment.
    A few days later in hospital and my blood platelets are critically low, my mum and sister had flown out to Thailand to be with me and were now dealing with Alpha on my behalf. Alpha have now said they'll cover me. However, they were continuously passed around people, directed to other departments and essentially ignored. My sister discussed the possible need to MediVac me to the UK if my platelets dropped lower and the Alpha doctor was so demeaning, basically making out she was being dramatic and saying it wasn't medically necessary and they wouldn't do it.

    After 8 days in hospital, the time came to pay the bill (only £1500, might I add.) Alpha refused to pay upfront or guarantee the money, and instead told me to pay on a credit card. I had no choice but to pay.
    It took about 5 months and numerous phone calls and emails for me to get the money back.

    All in all, absolutely USELESS. Made my illness so much more stressful and were frankly vile to deal with.
    • uk1
    • By uk1 4th Apr 19, 4:29 PM
    • 1,260 Posts
    • 883 Thanks
    uk1
    There should be a process that allows the FCA to stop an “insurer” collecting premiums in extreme cases like this. That is a lessor evil than allowing seriously or dying people abandoned whilst abroad. I was able to cancel my policy and had my premium returned from the CC Company. I wouldn’t have known had it not bn for The Times.

    Some of the companies I found under their management. I think they have removed links to their umbrella name ......

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=75087521&postcount=16
    • Mark Bedford
    • By Mark Bedford 4th Apr 19, 4:59 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Mark Bedford
    Well. I met with a senior Ombudsman staffer a few weeks ago. She asked me when the FCA would put an administration order on TIF. I, of course, said I did not know. They realise they have a problem with TIF.
    • uk1
    • By uk1 4th Apr 19, 6:53 PM
    • 1,260 Posts
    • 883 Thanks
    uk1
    Well. I met with a senior Ombudsman staffer a few weeks ago. She asked me when the FCA would put an administration order on TIF. I, of course, said I did not know. They realise they have a problem with TIF.
    Originally posted by Mark Bedford
    Mark, I’m lost. Why would the staffer be asking you? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
    • Mark Bedford
    • By Mark Bedford 4th Apr 19, 7:04 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Mark Bedford
    Hi uk1. The FCA and the Ombudsman are actually separate reporting lines. Totally separate. The Financial Ombudsman do not speak with the FCA about the matters we have been addressing. They are consumer facing. You might ask why not and should they have not contacted the FCA but that's another matter. One has teeth and the other not. The Ombudsman knew that we had the most knowledge on the TIF case. It was about 18 months of preliminary work tracking these cases (only medical ones with criteria) all over the world before the dossier was submitted - calling hospitals in New Zealand to incepting policy holders from Turkey to Indonesia and from Cambodia to Thailand....if a TIF policy holder touches any social mnedia anywhere we see it and often incecept them live in the field so to speak. We have a Gigabyte line dedicate to back this up.
    • uk1
    • By uk1 4th Apr 19, 7:12 PM
    • 1,260 Posts
    • 883 Thanks
    uk1
    That provides a good reason why they always seem to intercede on Trust Pilot. I’m surprised they haven’t asked the press to assist them and separately seeking access to customer claim files.
    • Mark Bedford
    • By Mark Bedford 4th Apr 19, 7:16 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Mark Bedford
    sorry uk1....not quite sure what you mean...could you expand or rephrase?
  • archived user
    I found them very helpful in sorting out my daughters medical issues and repatriation after breaking her leg in Mombasa.They did what they said they would in a time frame that was safe for my daughter dispite the moron with her pushing for an unsafe return!
    • Mark Bedford
    • By Mark Bedford 5th Apr 19, 11:14 AM
    • 102 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Mark Bedford
    Fine. Glad you feel that way and it was sorted out. What about the other reviews?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Apr 19, 11:18 AM
    • 40,488 Posts
    • 24,518 Thanks
    Quentin
    Why not ask a board guide to merge your multiple threads over your issue?

    Or maybe move them to the mse rants forum?
    • Mark Bedford
    • By Mark Bedford 5th Apr 19, 11:22 AM
    • 102 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Mark Bedford
    TIF Group travel insurance: BBC interviewing in support of the Times breaking the story
    Holidaysafe, Alpha, Insurancewith, etc. Check the policy small print to establish.

    The BBC have been and are currently recording interviews around their UK studios with people who were TIF group policy holders. The stories are truly harrowing, appalling for those involved and of likely interest to the FCA.

    Many are already with the head City regulator in an ongoing investigation by them and pipeline to them.

    Tales of people paying for their own heart operations abroad, incurring thousands and thousands of pounds of costs which they thought the policy would cover, left to fend for themselves with severe strokes etc.

    You will have to await the BBC broadcast but be seated for your own good.

    The BBC recordings and interviews are all NEW cases to those featured on the Front page article of the Times in November last year and are a selected few from a further pool of cases with the FCA. The Times did not pick one-offs clearly. We are making sure they find their way to the FCA.

    Richard Smith (TIF CEO) - why don't you go on the programme and tell the BBC "how insurance works". You stated that the Times journalist did "not properly understand the way in which the travel insurance business works". We are quite sure he did since he has a degree from the London School of Economics but it will be good interview practice for you....well for the FCA if they have any questions for you. Put your case forward why don't you. The BBC's audience would be fascinated to hear how you achieve "medical bills cut by 75% on average".

    We note that little fact was mentioned yesterday yet on today's website we see it missing unless we are mistaken. Why don't you put it back. Your clients can see your "75%" claim as your USP we assume. Did they cover that term in the management diploma you were studying for? It means "unique selling point". I would get your interview practice in if I were you. You are going to very likely need a "unique explaining point" for the FCA. I bet they didn't cover that in your diploma.

    Looking forward to hearing your viewpoint on the BBC. You better have some good explanations. Just stating that you are "the ethical insurance company" isn't going to cut the mustard. It might help if when you say that you don't then say immediately after "sounds unlikely, but it’s what we do and have been doing for over twenty years".

    Who on earth came up with this in your brochure "THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE LEADS TO CROOKED RIVERS AND CROOKED MEN". That being said it's making a lot of people laugh. Looking forward to hearing you on the BBC we hope.
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