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  • FIRST POST
    • iandv
    • By iandv 1st Aug 19, 10:12 PM
    • 368Posts
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    iandv
    Re-routed flight also delayed - can you claim compensation twice advice
    • #1
    • 1st Aug 19, 10:12 PM
    Re-routed flight also delayed - can you claim compensation twice advice 1st Aug 19 at 10:12 PM
    Hello,

    Our flight from Cardiff to Belfast at 18:00 was cancelled minutes before boarding because of a technical issue. We then got re-routed to fly from Birmingham the next morning at 7:00.

    However this flight was also delayed because of technical issues and arrived 4 hours late.

    Are we entitled to two separate claims - one for the cancelled flight from Cardiff and the other re-routed flight which was delayed from Birmingham.

    Many Thanks
Page 1
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 2nd Aug 19, 7:42 AM
    • 2,110 Posts
    • 895 Thanks
    Tyzap
    • #2
    • 2nd Aug 19, 7:42 AM
    • #2
    • 2nd Aug 19, 7:42 AM
    Hello,

    Our flight from Cardiff to Belfast at 18:00 was cancelled minutes before boarding because of a technical issue. We then got re-routed to fly from Birmingham the next morning at 7:00.

    However this flight was also delayed because of technical issues and arrived 4 hours late.

    Are we entitled to two separate claims - one for the cancelled flight from Cardiff and the other re-routed flight which was delayed from Birmingham.

    Many Thanks
    Originally posted by iandv
    In short, yes.

    Two separate claims tho.

    If it was a further delay, to an already delayed flight (with same flight number) it would count as the same delay. In your case tho it's clearly two different flights.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • Alan Bowen
    • By Alan Bowen 2nd Aug 19, 8:49 AM
    • 3,381 Posts
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    Alan Bowen
    • #3
    • 2nd Aug 19, 8:49 AM
    • #3
    • 2nd Aug 19, 8:49 AM
    Poor old Flybe, they clearly aren't any better under new ownership, are they? Hopefully, they also provided overnight accommodation near Birmingham Airport as well?
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 2nd Aug 19, 10:35 AM
    • 2,110 Posts
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    Tyzap
    • #4
    • 2nd Aug 19, 10:35 AM
    • #4
    • 2nd Aug 19, 10:35 AM
    Poor old Flybe, they clearly aren't any better under new ownership, are they? Hopefully, they also provided overnight accommodation near Birmingham Airport as well?
    Originally posted by Alan Bowen
    Under new ownership but not showing any signs of improvement yet, there really are in a mess at the moment.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • iandv
    • By iandv 4th Aug 19, 8:44 AM
    • 368 Posts
    • 2,607 Thanks
    iandv
    • #5
    • 4th Aug 19, 8:44 AM
    • #5
    • 4th Aug 19, 8:44 AM
    Thanks all for your help and guidance. I will put in two separate claims.
    • iandv
    • By iandv 18th Aug 19, 4:24 PM
    • 368 Posts
    • 2,607 Thanks
    iandv
    • #6
    • 18th Aug 19, 4:24 PM
    • #6
    • 18th Aug 19, 4:24 PM
    Hi

    Flybe have responded and stated that under EU Regulation 261/2004 it says that claims are considered of the entire journey to the arrival airport as per the booking not on a per flight basis?

    So it says that I can only claim for the first flight from Cardiff to Belfast which was cancelled and not the delayed re-routed flight from Birmingham airport to Belfast the next day which was a different flight number, but it was under the same booking reference.

    Are Flybe correct stating that claims are not assessed on a per flight basis but in consideration of the entire journey so we are only entitled to claim once? Or are they trying to chance their arm as I thought it was on a per flight basis not a per booking basis?

    Many thanks
    • JPears
    • By JPears 18th Aug 19, 9:15 PM
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    JPears
    • #7
    • 18th Aug 19, 9:15 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Aug 19, 9:15 PM
    NO.
    Your first flight was cancelled. End of. Your are then entitled to a refund or re-routing on a different flight. Compensation due.
    Your second flight was a different booking entirely. Delayed. Valid claim.
    Flybe are wrong.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • iandv
    • By iandv 19th Aug 19, 7:45 AM
    • 368 Posts
    • 2,607 Thanks
    iandv
    • #8
    • 19th Aug 19, 7:45 AM
    • #8
    • 19th Aug 19, 7:45 AM
    Thanks - just to clarify. The re-routed flight was under the same booking reference, so it is still valid to claim for the 5 hour delay along with the initial flight being cancelled because of technical issues.

    How would you reply?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 19th Aug 19, 10:26 AM
    • 4,829 Posts
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    JPears
    • #9
    • 19th Aug 19, 10:26 AM
    • #9
    • 19th Aug 19, 10:26 AM
    Booking reference is not relevant here. You were booked on 2 different flights.
    Word it along the lines that your first flight was cancelled. That is the end of the story for this journey. Compensation due and either a refund or re-routing due.
    You chose re-routing, on a completely different flight - route and flight number. which was then delayed beyond 3 hours and no EC.
    Compensation due.
    It would have been the same if you had taken a refund and booked yourself on the alternative flight.

    If they still deny the second claim them ask for a deadlock letter and take your case to an ADR.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • iandv
    • By iandv 19th Aug 19, 9:36 PM
    • 368 Posts
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    iandv
    Will have to ask for a deadlock letter, they are sticking with their stance that because it was on the same booking reference it is considered to be part of the same journey to Belfast, so in accordance with EU Regulation 261/2004 no further payments are due.
    • iandv
    • By iandv 5th Sep 19, 8:01 PM
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    iandv
    Before I ask them for a deadlock letter, I just wanted to ask with EU Regulation 261/2004 are claims on a flight basis or a booking reference basis?
    • Justice13075
    • By Justice13075 5th Sep 19, 8:35 PM
    • 1,856 Posts
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    Justice13075
    You are overthinking this JPears has given you the correct advice just follow it and ask for the deadlock letter.
    • iandv
    • By iandv 25th Oct 19, 12:00 AM
    • 368 Posts
    • 2,607 Thanks
    iandv
    Hi
    I just wanted some expert clarification on this please and a possible response to an update of the above.

    I have been informed that because of the cancellation of our original flight minutes before departure and we were booked onto a new Flybe flight the next day (free of charge) to serve as an alternative flight to our original flight, this is classed as an assistance flight.

    They go on to reference the case of Nelson, the court of justice of the EU

    “54 The specific obligation to pay compensation, imposed by Regulation No 261/2004, does not arise from each actual delay, but only from a delay which entails a loss of time equal to or in excess of three hours in relation to the time of arrival originally scheduled.”

    So basically, they are saying that customers are only entitled to one standard compensation amount for the total delay to their destination?

    As this was an assistance flight (or re-routed flight) even though as I mentioned that it was from a different airport, different flight number etc they are stating that we are only entitled to be compensated once?

    I find this a little hard to believe? How would you respond?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 25th Oct 19, 8:59 AM
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    JPears
    No. they are quoting Nelson which does not apply here.
    your flight was cancelled, not delayed. End of.
    Your re-routed flight had nothing to do with the original.
    2nd claim.
    Take your second delayed flight to ADR. I would at this stage not mention that you were re-routed as it should be regarded as a seperate flight. Let Flybe do the hard work when they respond to ADR.
    Have you received ANY compensation yet?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • iandv
    • By iandv 25th Oct 19, 5:06 PM
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    iandv
    Yes for the first cancelled flight. Their position for our second delay of over 4 hours was that it's the same booking and journey(destination) so compensation is only applicable once (even though its was a different flight and from a different airport)

    So next step is to reply back and state that Nelson does not apply here as our flight was cancelled and not delayed. How would you respond back to them?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 25th Oct 19, 5:11 PM
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    JPears
    No. I would just go to ADR. Its 8 weeks or so since you got the first rejection?
    Last edited by JPears; 25-10-2019 at 5:13 PM.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
    • iandv
    • By iandv 25th Oct 19, 11:26 PM
    • 368 Posts
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    iandv
    Yes they are adamant that they only have to pay out for the one journey

    Do I ask for a deadlock letter from Flybe for the ADR?
    • Tyzap
    • By Tyzap 26th Oct 19, 12:07 AM
    • 2,110 Posts
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    Tyzap
    Yes they are adamant that they only have to pay out for the one journey

    Do I ask for a deadlock letter from Flybe for the ADR?
    Originally posted by iandv
    No need if it's over 8 weeks from first claim.

    ADR companies understand the regs and so I would expect them to find in your favour. It just takes a bit of time.

    Good luck.
    Please read Vaubans superb guide. To find it Google and then download 'vaubans guide'.
    • iandv
    • By iandv 26th Oct 19, 11:13 AM
    • 368 Posts
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    iandv
    ok thanks - so need to respond back to Flybe?

    What do ADR companies do and do they take a % ?

    What is a deadlock letter for?
    • JPears
    • By JPears 26th Oct 19, 12:34 PM
    • 4,829 Posts
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    JPears
    Start googling!
    An ADR is an alternative dispute resolution service.
    The CAA have all but wash their hands of the regulation as they don't want to upset their paymasters the airlines and they can't be bothered ADRs are used instead.
    The results are variable. Flybe are probably signed up to Aviation ADR (it should be on the website somewhere) but it could be CEDR. ADrs can take a fee, if you loose, but I've never heard of one. They charge the airlines 125 for each case.
    Deadlock letter is required by an ADR unless your complaint is more than 8 weeks old.
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

    The alleged Ringleader.........
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