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  • FIRST POST
    • Jonamora
    • By Jonamora 24th Jan 17, 5:11 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Jonamora
    Electric cars
    • #1
    • 24th Jan 17, 5:11 PM
    Electric cars 24th Jan 17 at 5:11 PM
    Just wanted people's opinions on buying an electric car?

    Before long all cars will be electric and therfore is it best to sell petrol car at full value and invest in electric car.

    I don't want to start a new finance deals for 4 years and be complete but then left with and cat nobody wants or has resale value because all are electric.....thoughts

    Jonathan
Page 3
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 26th Jan 17, 10:04 AM
    • 13,803 Posts
    • 10,325 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Diesel vehicles are starting to be banned from cities and I expect towns will follow suit.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    Really, name one city in the UK that currently bans diesel cars?

    The current infrastructure in the UK does not support a mass move to electric vehicles and wont do for a number of years yet.
    Last edited by neilmcl; 26-01-2017 at 10:06 AM.
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 26th Jan 17, 10:06 AM
    • 4,746 Posts
    • 3,024 Thanks
    Car 54

    Diesel vehicles are starting to be banned from cities and I expect towns will follow suit. VW is starting to design and produce electric vehicles and in a few years it will be by the million and other makers will follow on as these machines become cheaper (without subsidies) than fossil burners. Evs cost less to maintain and when renewable electricity is far cheaper than coal, gas, diesel and nuclear it will just be a no brainer.
    Originally posted by NigeWick
    When do you imagine that will happen, and how will it be achieved?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 26th Jan 17, 10:24 AM
    • 26,270 Posts
    • 26,115 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Really, name one city in the UK that currently bans diesel cars?
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    ...or is even proposing it.

    Four cities worldwide have said they're going to in 2025. Paris, Athens, Madrid, Mexico City. Athens is talking about banning ALL CARS from the centre.

    How many of those cities do you drive into the centre of?
    • facade
    • By facade 26th Jan 17, 10:25 AM
    • 4,103 Posts
    • 2,222 Thanks
    facade
    When do you imagine that will happen, and how will it be achieved?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    When we can get PVs upto above 50% efficient, and make them out of something that Chinese children can produce for around 1 a square metre, with an operational lifespan with zero maintainance of 30 years.

    Never would be my guess, but you don't know...

    Watched that series about generating electricity at a profit last year. I hadn't realised that it costs millions of pounds a year to keep a wind farm operational, an offshore one costs squillions, as they have to go there by helicopter, and they cost thousands an hour to run, even when they don't crash.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science )
    • iolanthe07
    • By iolanthe07 26th Jan 17, 11:44 AM
    • 5,256 Posts
    • 4,934 Thanks
    iolanthe07
    Both the Tesla 3 and the Chevy Bolt are 200bhp 200 mile range cars that will cost about $30k in the states, though there are no plans to build a RHD version of the Bolt.

    Car and Driver got 190 miles out of the Bolt driving on freeways at 75mph.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    Isn't it the Chevvy Volt?
    I used to think that good grammar is important, but now I know that good wine is importanter.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 26th Jan 17, 12:14 PM
    • 22,818 Posts
    • 18,842 Thanks
    agrinnall
    Isn't it the Chevvy Volt?
    Originally posted by iolanthe07
    Rather confusingly they seem to have both a Bolt and a Volt.

    http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html

    http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 26th Jan 17, 12:20 PM
    • 9,749 Posts
    • 14,684 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    when renewable electricity is far cheaper than coal, gas, diesel and nuclear
    When do you imagine that will happen, and how will it be achieved?
    Originally posted by Car 54
    We are already there. Including the externality costs of pollution and CO2, then renewables are already cheaper than coal and gas.

    Obviously diesel is far more expensive again than coal and gas generation.

    Onshore wind and PV contracts issued in early 2015 are 83/MWh, compared to new nuclear (Hinkley Point C) at 102/MWh. More recent capacity auctions for wind in Italy and PV in Germany are 60/MWh reflecting the reduction in costs in the last 2 years.

    Offshore wind contracts are slightly more than nuclear at 120/MWh, but they have fallen significantly from 155/MWh a few years ago, and are expected to be close to 100 soon (possibly in the Apr auctions), then fall to 85/MWh by the early/mid 2020's.

    The proposed Swansea tidal scheme is expected to be around 100/MWh as a first of a kind, however the 10x larger Cardiff scheme is costed at onshore wind/PV costs, as is the whole 12 lagoon package.

    So looks like they are already cheaper "than coal, gas, diesel and nuclear".

    Obviously electricity is far cheaper than petrol/diesel for transport as 1kWh should take you about 3 miles, so 5/gallon of petrol, would buy you around 40kWh (or perhaps 70kWh on E7) and transport you around 120 miles.

    Also about 50% of our electricity is now low carbon, and powerstations generate energy far more efficiently and cleanly than an ICE.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 26th Jan 17, 12:21 PM
    • 9,749 Posts
    • 14,684 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Isn't it the Chevvy Volt?
    Originally posted by iolanthe07
    Hiya, the Volt is the hybrid car, sold as the Ampera in the UK.

    The Bolt is the EV.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • almillar
    • By almillar 26th Jan 17, 12:48 PM
    • 8,199 Posts
    • 3,394 Thanks
    almillar
    I just don't trust myself to a Renault although the range is adequate but it takes longer to charge
    Renault Zoe can charge at 43kW (the rapid charging one). Leaf can do 50kW DC. Zoe can also do 22kW AC, 7kW Ac, 3kW AC, and if you buy a 'granny cable', 3 pin. Leaf can do 3kW AC, or 6kW AC optionally. Zoe doesn't slow down charging as much when the battery is full.
    I would therefore say that it depends where you are, what speed they'll charge at. A 41kWh Zoe will take longer to charge than a 30 kWh Leaf, of course, but then it take in more energy, and goes further.
    I don't see Leaf really having a speed advantage, unless you're counting the very specific 50kW DC vs 43 KW AC up to 80%. Many reasons to buy a Leaf over a Zoe, charging speed isn't one of them, unless you're surrounded by DC rapid chargers and no AC ones.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 26th Jan 17, 1:35 PM
    • 26,270 Posts
    • 26,115 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Hiya, the Volt is the hybrid car, sold as the Ampera in the UK.

    The Bolt is the EV.
    Originally posted by Martyn1981
    To be sold in Europe as the Opel Ampera-e, just to confuse matters even further.
    • RHemmings
    • By RHemmings 26th Jan 17, 6:28 PM
    • 2,094 Posts
    • 1,317 Thanks
    RHemmings
    To be sold in Europe as the Opel Ampera-e, just to confuse matters even further.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    But not in the UK
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 26th Jan 17, 6:32 PM
    • 26,270 Posts
    • 26,115 Thanks
    AdrianC
    But not in the UK
    Originally posted by RHemmings
    No, we have this annoying habit of sitting on the wrong side of the car.
    • Brightonsbest
    • By Brightonsbest 26th Jan 17, 6:34 PM
    • 234 Posts
    • 146 Thanks
    Brightonsbest
    Eletric cars a fundamental flaw is the batteries when they go, it will cost at least 10k to repalce.
    • RHemmings
    • By RHemmings 26th Jan 17, 7:15 PM
    • 2,094 Posts
    • 1,317 Thanks
    RHemmings
    Eletric cars a fundamental flaw is the batteries when they go, it will cost at least 10k to repalce.
    Originally posted by Brightonsbest
    About half that.

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/89694/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-to-cost-4920

    And, that's after the owners will have saved hundreds each year on maintenance costs. https://www.zap-map.com/ev-owners-save-hundreds-each-year-on-maintenance-costs/
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 26th Jan 17, 10:38 PM
    • 9,749 Posts
    • 14,684 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    Eletric cars a fundamental flaw is the batteries when they go, it will cost at least 10k to repalce.
    Originally posted by Brightonsbest
    I think that has to be seen in context. The battery pack should be thought of as a prepayment on fuel costs since it allows you to run cheaply on leccy rather than expensively on petrol/diesel.

    So, let's say you were buying an older car. You could check the quality of the battery, and if it is poor, you would pay a lower value for the car, then pay 5k for a shiny new batt pack, that will allow you exceptionally cheap motoring (cost per mile) for 10 yrs.

    If necessary you could also replace the motor/inverter stack for about 1.5k, making the car almost new again.

    According to RHemmings' link you could also trade in the old batt for 1k. However, my understanding is that EV batts are classed as worn out when they are down to 80% efficiency - and I've seen no end of threads on renewables forums where on (or off) grid folk would kill for 30kWh (24kWh @ 80%) of lithium batts for 1k for home storage.

    This thread details the build of such a battery using parts from a written off Leaf. The full build (by offpist) starts from 17/8/14 and is a thing of beauty.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • mojo1
    • By mojo1 26th Jan 17, 11:35 PM
    • 998 Posts
    • 345 Thanks
    mojo1
    And still the range is less than 100 miles! And the waste contamination from the battery is excluded.
    Originally posted by Blackbeard of Perranporth
    My Leaf gets a solid 130 even in the winter rain.

    The battery will eventually be recycled. Why would you throw something so valuable away? That's insane, like burning money. After its expected life (250k miles) it will still have 80% capacity.
    • Martyn1981
    • By Martyn1981 27th Jan 17, 7:49 AM
    • 9,749 Posts
    • 14,684 Thanks
    Martyn1981
    After its expected life (250k miles) it will still have 80% capacity.
    Originally posted by mojo1
    Hi. just in case you're interested, I'm following the domestic storage market quite closely, and one of the offerings is from Nissan. Like all the domestic batts, it is currently quite expensive, but storage is rapidly falling in price and has just started to become viable in sun rich / high price leccy areas (Australia, Hawaii etc) now, for PV households.

    Nissan XStorage

    xStorage is a portfolio of energy storage solutions that give you access to safe, reliable and sustainable energy. The home storage unit gives Nissan's electric vehicle batteries a 'second life'. By partnering with Eaton, we provide scalable energy storage systems fit for your homes and your business, allowing all of us to benefit from the transition towards a more sustainable society.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
    • BeenThroughItAll
    • By BeenThroughItAll 27th Jan 17, 8:07 AM
    • 4,677 Posts
    • 4,092 Thanks
    BeenThroughItAll
    Charge time is limited by the battery capacity, and the battery capacity alone.

    Renault and Nissan are, to all intents and purposes, the same company and share the same technology.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    The battery pack and charging system on the Zoe are quite different to the Leaf. Inverter/Charger is unique to Renault (good job really) and the battery uses a different battery management system and different cells. I've owned a Zoe (never again will I buy anything with a Renault badge) and work with a company who specialises in battery technology who build special purpose packs, often starting with a Leaf pack as the base.
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 27th Jan 17, 9:04 AM
    • 3,086 Posts
    • 1,432 Thanks
    NigeWick
    Really, name one city in the UK that currently bans diesel cars?

    The current infrastructure in the UK does not support a mass move to electric vehicles and wont do for a number of years yet.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Starting doesn't mean the ban is in yet. That said, Paris just banned some vehicles this week due to pollution. And, for their olympics Beijing banned all motor vehicles at times.

    There are presently five cities that have announce an upcoming ban and I suspect London will follow their lead.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
    • NigeWick
    • By NigeWick 27th Jan 17, 9:08 AM
    • 3,086 Posts
    • 1,432 Thanks
    NigeWick
    Charge time is limited by the battery capacity, and the battery capacity alone.

    Renault and Nissan are, to all intents and purposes, the same company and share the same technology.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    I understand that but the Renault Zoe does not charge as fast as the Nissan Leaf, and, the 41kWh version Zoe has two charging speeds. And yes, I do know that the Leaf has a 24kWh or 30kWh battery. Renault quote an hour to get to 80% on a rapid charger for the swifter charging of the two.
    The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract.
    Oliver Wendell Holmes
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