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  • bigman3
    Did you get your compensation in the end and may I ask what the flights were and how much you got?
    We really do believe that KLM are playing with us. We are going through the relevant authorities at the moment but I am wondering if I should just get a solicitors letter or something to chivvie KLM along. Their customer service is rubbish, I wish there was some way of highlighting this. Do you think there would be much interest for a website shaming KLM?
    by Trouble
    Claim 1.One claim was for expenses and a full refund for a ticket after they bumped me off a flight that was overbooked. The staff at Birmingham International Airport knew the flight was overbooked but made up a story of how the computer was not working correctly and I would have to get the boarding passes for my connecting flight in Amsterdam. When I went to one of the KLM transfer desks they laughed and said there was no boarding passes for my flight as it was overbooked. To be fair they did put me up in a decent hotel. I eventually got to my destination 3 days late and was so stressed out etc that I just bought one way tickets for another airline and came back home. Got the !!!!!!s at KLM to give me a full refund (50%) for the return portion of the tickets I had not used. I also got my denied boarding compensation. In all it took close to a year to get this out of them.

    Claim 2. Flight form Birmingham was delayed. I had a boarding pass for my connecting flight. I ran through Schipool to get my flight and it was still allowing people to board. They denied me boarding as they claimed my luggage would not be on the flight and I could not go on a flight if my checked in baggage was not on it. Strange that for claim 1 my baggage went to the destination 3 days before me and that airlines do have mishandled baggage cases. They put me and a few others up in a grotty hotel next to a motorway. I did get an upgrade to first class which was nice. I claimed for expenses but again KLM claimed they were consequential. Eventually they agreed they were not consequential expenses and paid up.

    Claim 3. A flight was cancelled and they did not bother giving refreshment vouchers so I spent money on bottled water, newspapers etc. Still waiting for them to sort this out.

    Keep at it do not let them get away with it. KLM think that if they string yo along for months you will lose interest. It might be worth paying a solicitor to get things done.
  • Trouble
    Wow!
    They don't seem to learn.
    We will keep at it, thanks for the encouragement. I have no desire to let them get away with this. Our denied boarding was due to a "computer error" convieniently on a seriously overbooked flight.
    I am due to start a weekly commute to london and had the choice of KLM and VLM. Needless to say I have gone with VLM despite the lure of KLM lounge access.
    I know the hotel you mean near Schiphol - it is not the best!
    My husband is mulling over the logisitcs of the website. I'll let you know if we come up with anything.
  • Laura_Biding
    Dear Trouble

    If its any help, when we claimed for cancelled flights without prior notification with a low cost airline, we finally threatened them with a section of the new regulations which states that failure to comply with the compensation rates may result in the airline being fined £5,000 by the CAA. (Not sure whether that is per person or per claim). Either way this resulted in a cheque arriving by return post with no apologies throughout of course.

    Keep it up, they try to wear you down.
    Laura Biding
  • Trouble
    Thanks Laura,
    I wanted to say that to them but my husband wouldn't let me He thought it was too threatening. I felt it was highly appropriate. We are just about to write again so I may photocopy just that paragraph of the regulation and attach it to the letter.
    This whole situation is mad. This week my aim is to find some legal advice over this.
    Thanks for the support,
    Trouble
    PS I had that user name in the Terry Wogan chat room once!
  • bigman3


    Just had a cheque from KLM for the expenses. So that is claim 3 sorted.

    Trouble,

    The thing with airlines is that they think the general public are stupid. As Laura has written, it is sometimes best to remind them of their legal obligations.

    See what you are legally entitled to. The following site is useful :

    http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=306&pagetype=90&pageid=440 7
  • Trouble
    Hurrah! I'm glad you have had success

    We have a copy of the actual regulation and have quoted the relevant paragraphs to KLM but they are now disputing with us the content of the regulation. I have even sent them a copy.

    So I have put in a claim to the dutch equivalent of the CAA and I'm going to find a legal type person to maybe write them a letter to try and speed them up. However the dutch authorities take 8 weeks to respond and only they will not enforce their conclusion, you then have to go to court.

    They will only punnish airlines if they find that there a significant number of claims against a single airline. So KLM don't care about the 5000E fine because I sincerely think they think they will never be punnished.

    Thanks for the link it was one of the really useful ones we found.
    This is where we got the regulation from:
    http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2004/l_046/l_04620040217en00010007.pdf
  • Unknown
    Flight Delay
    dOES ANYONE THINK OR KNOW IF THESE RULES APPLY:-

    Flight to Maldives from Newcastle- took off on time however prior to flight we were told that due to a technical problem another plane/pilotes would have to be use. We had to fly to Bahrain due to pilots hours(pilot rest time etc) where we were put up for a day and then at 11.30pm got a bus to the airport and then flew to Maldives arriving 18 1/2 hrs late and shattered!!

    I received letter from my holiday insurance stating sorry no payment as we took off on time!!

    can I do anything about this and also can I claim from the airline or tour operator? :
    • jig
    • By jig 10th Dec 05, 2:11 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    jig
    My parents had their flight cancelled for the return to London from Argentina, does this apply worldwide, what should I do??
  • BadgerBuckets
    Delays... 'exceptional reasons'
    I have just recieved a letter from the AUTC regarding Flybe (or FlyMAYbe as it is known here!). We were booked on two seperate flights from Belfast to Liverpool, and on both occasions the flight was 'delayed' from 07.05 to 10.05 - the reason given (after writing to Flybe) was that the flights were 'delayed' due to a lack of staff onboard. We noticed on BOTH occasions that the number of passengers transferred to the later flight (coincidentally the next scheduled flight) was less than 20. Quite clearly Flybe cancelled the earlier flight for financial reasons rather than the reason presented. Flybe did NOT offer any compensation, even after a complaint was submitted. A formal complaint to the AUTC resulted in a letter advising us to pursue the matter through the civil courts.

    Incidentally, the AUTC told me they are now swamped with complaints, and are advising almost all complainants to sue the airline privately.

    Has ANYONE successfully sued an airline under the EU Reg 261 yet?

    I am flying again tomorrow.. Belfast - Liverpool and back again in the same day with Easyjet - fingers crossed!
  • BadgerBuckets
    The EU Reg 261 applies to ANY flight starting OR ending within a member country of the EU. Flights into or out of London are covered by the regulation. The Air Users Transport Council (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=306&pagetype=68&groupid=35 5) has advice on what to do. Good luck!
  • JohnBJsy
    Delayed Flight Confused
    Please can someone confirm what exactly I am entitled to after my plane was delayed, arriving exactly five hours and one minute behind schedule due to technical problems.We actually had to wait for another aircraft to be flown in but our late arrival caused me to have to spend a night in a hotel plus hire a car for a week because I missed the last train to my destination and it was not viable to travel any of the following three days via this route.
    The airline did provide us with a £5 meal voucher after two hours.
    Thanks in advance JohnBJsy
    • Billy Boy
    • By Billy Boy 21st Apr 06, 6:56 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Billy Boy
    JohnBJsy

    I'm in a similar position - 5 hr 15 min delay and received £3 voucher. Struggling to find out what the level of compensation should be for a 5 hr+ delay. The regulations appear vague as to the level of compensation - if anyone has any links or info as to what is reasonable I would be much obliged.
  • WiseInvestor
    Compensation is not payable for unforseen delays (eg Technical)

    Food/drink vouchers, phone calls/emails etc must be offered.
    • Billy Boy
    • By Billy Boy 23rd Apr 06, 7:15 PM
    • 67 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Billy Boy
    Hi there Wiseinvestor

    I realise that there is an element of "subjectivity" but I was influenced by Martin's article on delays / cancellations which states:-

    'The only possible stumbling block occurs within the confusing definition of the kind of delays that are or aren’t within the airline’s control. Airlines are exempt from paying out compensation if cancellations are due to ‘extraordinary circumstances’.

    Basically this covers unpreventable occurrences such as extreme weather conditions, security risks and worker strikes, but not technical problems with the aircraft. The general consensus seems to be that these criteria are vague enough that initially many claims may be decided in court, to set a precedent.'

    I was basing my claim on the 'not technical problems with the aircraft' - in my case the pilot would not take-off because of a problem with his seat and they had to get a cable flown in from Amsterdam !

    Regulation (EC) 261/2004 states the compensation should be:-

    'Meals and refreshments in relation to waiting time

    Two free telephone calls, emails, telexes or faxes

    Reimbursement of ticket (if passenger decides not to travel*)'

    My query is whether a £3 voucher is reasonable.

    Billy Boy
  • WiseInvestor
    My query is whether a £3 voucher is reasonable
    by Billy Boy
    I suppose that depends on the time of day, the availability of food/drink outlets and how much you were able to buy with your voucher - if you were able to get a sandwich and a drink I would say the offer was sufficient.

    Remember that the airline also gave vouchers to the other 100/200/300 passengers so this one delay has cost in excess of £300 even before considering the disruption to their operation. How much pain would an airline bare before leaning on the crew to operate a knowingly unsafe aircraft? Personally, I'd rather sit for 5 hours than get on a plane where the pilot couldn't reach the controls.
    • mystic_trev
    • By mystic_trev 24th Apr 06, 8:59 AM
    • 5,147 Posts
    • 15,365 Thanks
    mystic_trev
    Compensation is not payable for unforseen delays (eg Technical)

    Food/drink vouchers, phone calls/emails etc must be offered.
    by WiseInvestor
    I was on a Monarch Flight to Luxor last year which had to make an emergency landing at Venice, due to a passenger being taken ill.Once we'd landed we assumed the sick passenger would be taken off and we'd be on our way again. Unfortunately because the aircraft had landed with so much fuel on board it may have damaged the landing gear so a 757 engineer had to be called out to check it. There was no Engineer available at Venice, so Monarch had to fly one down from the UK in an empty Airbus! We finally got on our way about 8 hours latter, and our compensation? A free drink on the Aircraft! Sometimes you have to see things from the Airlines point of view. They did the Right thing for the sick passenger, and yes , it was a total pain for us passengers, but probably cost Monarch in excess of £50,000 - and no, their Insurance wouldn't cover them.
    • gregg1
    • By gregg1 24th Apr 06, 10:36 PM
    • 3,007 Posts
    • 4,131 Thanks
    gregg1
    Hi there Wiseinvestor

    I realise that there is an element of "subjectivity" but I was influenced by Martin's article on delays / cancellations which states:-

    'The only possible stumbling block occurs within the confusing definition of the kind of delays that are or aren’t within the airline’s control. Airlines are exempt from paying out compensation if cancellations are due to ‘extraordinary circumstances’.

    Basically this covers unpreventable occurrences such as extreme weather conditions, security risks and worker strikes, but not technical problems with the aircraft. The general consensus seems to be that these criteria are vague enough that initially many claims may be decided in court, to set a precedent.'

    I was basing my claim on the 'not technical problems with the aircraft' - in my case the pilot would not take-off because of a problem with his seat and they had to get a cable flown in from Amsterdam !

    Regulation (EC) 261/2004 states the compensation should be:-

    'Meals and refreshments in relation to waiting time

    Two free telephone calls, emails, telexes or faxes

    Reimbursement of ticket (if passenger decides not to travel*)'

    My query is whether a £3 voucher is reasonable.

    Billy Boy
    by Billy Boy
    I agree with you. I went by Martin's advice which states that extraordinary circumstances does NOT cover technical delays so compensation SHOULD be paid up in the case of a technical delay. However, when I applied for compensation (28 hour delay!) the technical bit was used as an excuse not to pay. What IS the situation, is Martin right or not (I hope he is cos that will mean I can pursue my claim)? And no, a £3 voucher is not reasonable.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 19th Sep 06, 1:56 PM
    • 17,785 Posts
    • 13,902 Thanks
    hollydays
    Any chance of anyone from this site updating us on the implementation of these regulations since they were introduced,particularly re technical fault delays.
    Last edited by hollydays; 19-09-2006 at 2:36 PM.
  • southernscouser
    I'm all for being compensated for this but the majority of the time it's us passengers that cause lengthy delays.

    A plane taking off just 5 minutes late coz they were waiting for a passenger can have a massive knock on effect on later flights and it's near impossible to rectify the situation without canceling flights.

    People think, well it's only a couple of minutes. Yeah it is but do that with every flight leaving somewhere like Heathrow and it's madness!

    I personally would rather see those passengers that cause delays fined instead or banned from flying!
  • TNG
    Can someone (Martin?) please provide some clarification on this. The article indicates that you are entitled to compensation for a delayed flight.

    Our flight was subject to a >6 hour delay due to technical problems (a part had to be shipped from Luton in the end)

    We wrote to the flight operator and I quote from the reply

    "Many customers aqre aware that in the event of a delay exceeding five hours you are entitled to cancel your flight with us and make alternative travel arrangements. EU regulation 261/2004 stipulates that we are only rewquired to refund the flight element cost under such circumstances."

    If so, then Martin's article needs updating. If they are pulling my whatsit, could someone let me know and I'll give 'em what for.
    Last edited by TNG; 18-10-2006 at 11:07 AM.
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