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    • The-Joker
    • By The-Joker 10th Jun 19, 1:52 PM
    • 641 Posts
    • 495 Thanks
    The-Joker
    which is the lowest rate for 20K unsecured loan?
    The thing about chaos is, it's fair.
    • Fatbritabroad
    • By Fatbritabroad 10th Jun 19, 8:18 PM
    • 555 Posts
    • 343 Thanks
    Fatbritabroad
    About 3% last time I checked why?
    • CavendishWobble
    • By CavendishWobble 14th Jun 19, 4:08 PM
    • 73 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    CavendishWobble
    I am looking at getting involved in P2P but cant help but wonder why some of the large institutions such as hSBC, Barclays, Halifax etc don't appear to be in this market. Is there a reason why or they feel it is too risky in the current climate?
    Save 12k in 2019 = 1544.13/15,000 (10.3%) #92
    Virtual Sealed Pot = 133.01/200 #11
    1 a Day Challenge = 730.18/730

    Starting: Jan'17: 33,729: Jan'18: 50,918
    Save 12k in 2018 = 17,189.12/15,000 (115%) #36
    • Aidanmc
    • By Aidanmc 14th Jun 19, 4:28 PM
    • 221 Posts
    • 74 Thanks
    Aidanmc
    The large bank have their own lending business i suppose and the funds they use for the loans come from other customers investing/saving in these institutions.
    I would consider P2P to be in competition to the banks for lending or for people who are unable to get a bank loan for some reason or other.

    I am looking at getting involved in P2P but cant help but wonder why some of the large institutions such as hSBC, Barclays, Halifax etc don't appear to be in this market. Is there a reason why or they feel it is too risky in the current climate?
    Originally posted by CavendishWobble
    • Ash Pole
    • By Ash Pole 14th Jun 19, 6:17 PM
    • 160 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Ash Pole
    The large bank have their own lending business i suppose and the funds they use for the loans come from other customers investing/saving in these institutions.
    I would consider P2P to be in competition to the banks for lending or for people who are unable to get a bank loan for some reason or other.
    Originally posted by Aidanmc
    You could argue that banks do act as p2p in a way, just with big profit margins and big safeguard funds.
    • Snow Dog
    • By Snow Dog 14th Jun 19, 7:22 PM
    • 653 Posts
    • 344 Thanks
    Snow Dog
    I am looking at getting involved in P2P but cant help but wonder why some of the large institutions such as hSBC, Barclays, Halifax etc don't appear to be in this market. Is there a reason why or they feel it is too risky in the current climate?
    Originally posted by CavendishWobble

    Not quite sure what you mean by "in this market", if you mean why arent they setting up p2p sidelines, why would they?


    After all, they already take customers money and lend it out to borrowers so they are already "in the market". Setting up a sideline p2p would just muddy the waters for them and probably not be as profitable as their current model.


    As for risky - couple of things - banks will have a quite narrow window of what they lend on and aim to be as low risk as possible, they will often change their targets and market they are aiming for, so i have seen borrowers on p2p sites for the reason that their current high street lender is trying to get rid of a particular sector, eg commercial premises and so on.


    The other end of the scale of risk is dealt with by the payday loan sharks and their ilk.


    Somewhere in the middle seems to fit the p2p crowd - a lot of the loans you see are for development work, someone has a plot of land, banks dont like that so much because of the risk during the build and hassle - so in steps the p2p option, borrower has the money on a 12 month or 24 month basis while renovating or building the property with the intention of then switching to a high street lender when its all done.


    So, yes, risks there are a plenty. That is why you are hoping to be returning 5,6 or 7% on p2p and 1.5% in your bank account.


    As with anything, the bigger the return often equates to the bigger the risk.
    • masonic
    • By masonic 14th Jun 19, 8:09 PM
    • 12,631 Posts
    • 10,133 Thanks
    masonic
    You could argue that banks do act as p2p in a way, just with big profit margins and big safeguard funds.
    Originally posted by Ash Pole
    P2P differs from banking in that banks bear the risk of defaults. Banks must repay saver's capital and interest or be subject to insolvency proceedings. Savers have the protection of the FSCS, so cannot lose money subject to them observing the compensation limit and spreading money accordingly.

    P2P platforms can lose up to 100% of their investor's capital and interest (perhaps more in the case of legal action) without recourse and are actively discouraged from investing their own money in their loans by the FCA because it is considered too risky to do so.
    • CavendishWobble
    • By CavendishWobble 16th Jun 19, 11:22 AM
    • 73 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    CavendishWobble
    Not quite sure what you mean by "in this market", if you mean why arent they setting up p2p sidelines, why would they?


    After all, they already take customers money and lend it out to borrowers so they are already "in the market". Setting up a sideline p2p would just muddy the waters for them and probably not be as profitable as their current model.


    As for risky - couple of things - banks will have a quite narrow window of what they lend on and aim to be as low risk as possible, they will often change their targets and market they are aiming for, so i have seen borrowers on p2p sites for the reason that their current high street lender is trying to get rid of a particular sector, eg commercial premises and so on.


    The other end of the scale of risk is dealt with by the payday loan sharks and their ilk.


    Somewhere in the middle seems to fit the p2p crowd - a lot of the loans you see are for development work, someone has a plot of land, banks dont like that so much because of the risk during the build and hassle - so in steps the p2p option, borrower has the money on a 12 month or 24 month basis while renovating or building the property with the intention of then switching to a high street lender when its all done.


    So, yes, risks there are a plenty. That is why you are hoping to be returning 5,6 or 7% on p2p and 1.5% in your bank account.


    As with anything, the bigger the return often equates to the bigger the risk.
    Originally posted by Snow Dog

    1. 'in this market' i am referring to the different types of deposits/lending. Peer-to-peer is one of these which carries more risk for the customer rather than the more traditional fixed deposit & loan products. They are both in the deposits/lending markets but different ways of delivering it. Your answer refers to this by differentiating between traditional banks - P2P - Payday loans.

    2. For debate sake I can see a number of potential reasons why they could get involved:
    - With certain P2P companies going 'bust' it may put customers off the P2P market, but if a more traditional big bank got involved they could leverage on their brand and size to give consumer confidence to go with them rather than a smaller P2P . They may be able to offer less competitive rates as a result which improves the commercial element.
    - The P2P market has been growing vastly year on year, surely this would 'eat into' the lending & deposit market for the larger banks, getting into this may ease that. Also increased regulation that the traditional banks may already be complying with.
    - Many P2Ps do not pay savings interest on unused funds, where as more traditional banks do for their excess funds.

    3. Regarding bridging loans etc many larger banks do offer this, but again P2P is another way of delivering this.
    Save 12k in 2019 = 1544.13/15,000 (10.3%) #92
    Virtual Sealed Pot = 133.01/200 #11
    1 a Day Challenge = 730.18/730

    Starting: Jan'17: 33,729: Jan'18: 50,918
    Save 12k in 2018 = 17,189.12/15,000 (115%) #36
    • firestone
    • By firestone 16th Jun 19, 2:41 PM
    • 440 Posts
    • 200 Thanks
    firestone
    it was mentioned when Marcus was first launched that Goldman Sachs were looking at bringing out a p2p product.Which if it happened could be an interesting addition to that market given their name & size
    • masonic
    • By masonic 16th Jun 19, 4:37 PM
    • 12,631 Posts
    • 10,133 Thanks
    masonic
    it was mentioned when Marcus was first launched that Goldman Sachs were looking at bringing out a p2p product.Which if it happened could be an interesting addition to that market given their name & size
    Originally posted by firestone
    Given its contribution to the global financial crisis, including knowingly selling mortgage-backed securities full of mortgages that were on the brink of default to investors, I can't think of a better fit for GS than the P2P lending sector
    • itwasntme001
    • By itwasntme001 16th Jun 19, 6:49 PM
    • 449 Posts
    • 194 Thanks
    itwasntme001
    P2P is nothing to do with deposit taking like banks. It is purely investing where the investor takes a huge gamble on whether the loan will pay or not. Depositors in banks dont take such a risk since it is assumed banks properly risk manage who they lend to and there are regulations around banks holding enough capital so they do not go bust.


    If banks got involved it would be purely as getting paid in equity in return for the branding/backing. The P2P firm would not be on their balance sheet so their depositors would never assume P2P risk. The whole point of P2P for the borrower is to provide funding for them when banks wont give it to them, mainly due to the riskiness of the borrower.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 16th Jun 19, 8:06 PM
    • 7,113 Posts
    • 11,448 Thanks
    Malthusian
    There is of course nothing stopping you lending money to a bank - plenty of bank corporate bonds can be bought on the stockmarket. That way you are exposed to the risk the bank goes under, in exchange for a higher return. Pretty much the same as the black-box P2P companies with less smoke and mirrors.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 17th Jun 19, 9:39 AM
    • 1,689 Posts
    • 1,345 Thanks
    bxboards
    Ratesetter is back to normal Rolling rate levels again - it hit 6% yesterday, I topped up at 5.8%, back to 2.9% this morning.

    Something doesn't look right though as there seems to be just under 400k in the Rolling queue at the moment, suggesting rates may rise again.
    • ToiletDuck65
    • By ToiletDuck65 19th Jun 19, 10:25 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    ToiletDuck65
    Withdrawl Times for Funding Circle
    I thought I should mention my recent experience with Funding Circle.
    While I have enjoyed rates of about 7.5% before tax, these have reduced to nearer 5%, the bad debt seems to have increased to me. I believe that they have really been pushing loans rather than investment to satisfy demand. This seems to have led to loans to higher risk lenders.

    But my main point is that the current selling times, if you want to get your cash out, are 57 days! So instant access it is not.
    I can only assume there aren't enough investors currently.
    • MaxiRobriguez
    • By MaxiRobriguez 19th Jun 19, 10:44 AM
    • 639 Posts
    • 465 Thanks
    MaxiRobriguez
    Pool of investors is likely to be declining as debt levels hit record highs and investors move to more defensive investments to protect against defaults in a possible upcoming recession.

    I missed the boat on P2P. I won't invest now.
    • fun4everyone
    • By fun4everyone 19th Jun 19, 10:52 AM
    • 1,880 Posts
    • 3,032 Thanks
    fun4everyone
    Pool of investors is likely to be declining as debt levels hit record highs and investors move to more defensive investments to protect against defaults in a possible upcoming recession.
    Originally posted by MaxiRobriguez
    I highly doubt that is the logic behind most people leaving p2p

    It's more likely that the rates are crap, the borrowers all default and the platforms do **** all to recover loans. Several platforms have collapsed and imo facilitated outright frauds on some loans due to them not giving a **** where lenders money goes. The FCA's regulation has also been utterly useless.
    • MaxiRobriguez
    • By MaxiRobriguez 19th Jun 19, 11:00 AM
    • 639 Posts
    • 465 Thanks
    MaxiRobriguez
    I highly doubt that is the logic behind most people leaving p2p

    It's more likely that the rates are crap, the borrowers all default and the platforms do **** all to recover loans. Several platforms have collapsed and imo facilitated outright frauds on some loans due to them not giving a **** where lenders money goes. The FCA's regulation has also been utterly useless.
    Originally posted by fun4everyone
    Most people no, but most people are only sinking in a few hundred quid most likely. Investors with much larger capital allocated will think more about the systematic risks that are building.
    • KTF
    • By KTF 19th Jun 19, 11:06 AM
    • 4,745 Posts
    • 1,945 Thanks
    KTF
    I am actively taking my money out of Assets Capital because:

    a) There are more vote emails asking how to proceed with borrowers who are in default.
    b) This is only going to happen more IMO.
    c) They like to kick the can down the road several times rather than try to get any money back - Morgan Duffield is a very good example of this.

    And d) last years tax statement showed I made a loss (mainly because of c) so time to move on for me.
    • grumpycrab
    • By grumpycrab 19th Jun 19, 11:10 AM
    • 4,331 Posts
    • 2,093 Thanks
    grumpycrab
    (mainly) good experiences with P2P for me; my lessons - ensure that amounts leant to individuals are small enough (in % terms) so that if there is a problem (that's not covered by the P2P company safe-guards) it won't majorly affect overall performance; P2P is not a short-term thing; very pleased overall with Zopa and Ratesetter.
    If you put your general location in your Profile, somebody here may be able to come and help you.
    • KTF
    • By KTF 19th Jun 19, 11:12 AM
    • 4,745 Posts
    • 1,945 Thanks
    KTF
    The problem with AC is that you have no control (unless you go for the manual option) where the money is lent.

    Most of my lent amounts are very small and spread across hundreds of companies. Apart from the company mentioned in c) above which has nearly 4k stuck in it all thanks to their algorithm doing something daft which is very annoying.
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