Complex situation, what next?

ChilliBob · 9 October 2019 at 12:49PM

Hello guys,

My auntie passed away this morning, and her husband passed away on 8th August. Neither of them had a will.

My auntie didn't get round to sorting out my uncle's affairs before she passed.

In terms of family tree, this couple didn't have children together, but my uncle had two grown up daughters, around 50 now.

There are two houses involved, one we belive is in my aunties parents name, and one in my uncles parents name. There are also quite a few bank accounts in both names, some shares, and obviously possessions.

Myself and my brother want to take this on for my mum really, but not too sure what reading we can do regarding blood line, default legal positions etc.

We also feel professional advise would be a good idea.

So far I've just called the council, and theyve noted the situation and put the account on hold for 2 months.

Any advise, very, much appreciated.

Thanks

Linton · 9 October 2019 at 1:42PM

See https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will for who gets what.
See https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/sorting-out-the-estate-when-there-isnt-a-will about applying for Letters of Administration. Though https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/who-can-apply says something rather different. Hopefully somone else can clarify.

Depending on the amount of money involved, what could happen is that all of Uncle's estate goes to Auntie and then when Auntie died all her estate including her inheritance from Uncle could go to her closest relations as defined above. Uncle's daughters could get nothing. So the situation could need very careful handling.

ChilliBob · 9 October 2019 at 1:55PM

Thank you. I wondered whether my auntie not sorting out my uncle's estate would change things, I will check out those two links.

Sounds odd, but in my aunties case, I guess she didn't die 'married' as her husband had died, or does a marriage count if one person is deceased?

That may not make much sense, I'm a bit all over the place tbh.

Linton · 9 October 2019 at 2:06PM

ChilliBob wrote: »

Thank you. I wondered whether my auntie not sorting out my uncle's estate would change things, I will check out those two links.

Sounds odd, but in my aunties case, I guess she didn't die 'married' as her husband had died, or does a marriage count if one person is deceased?

That may not make much sense, I'm a bit all over the place tbh.

Uncle died married so the first £250K goes to his wife. When his wife dies she is not married, being a widow, so the estate goes to her nearest blood relations. Auntie not having sorted out his affairs does not change this, Uncle's estate goes to her estate.

One other awkwardness - since uncle had children they could now be first in line to administer his estate.

I fear you may need a solicitor, at least so that everything is clearly done by the book.

xylophone · 9 October 2019 at 2:14PM

Auntie was your mother's sister? Or Uncle was your mother's brother?

Auntie and Uncle were married? They lived in England or Wales?

They owned a marital property as well as each having inherited their respective parents' properties (which had never been transferred into their individual names)? If so, how was that property owned? If Auntie and Uncle were joint tenants in the marital home then the house would have passed to her automatically outside of any will.

If so, and Uncle died intestate but with children this would appear to be the situation after he died, (Auntie would have had first right to seek letters of administration).

https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will

The husband, wife or civil partner keeps all the assets (including property), up to £250,000, and all the personal possessions, whatever their value.
The remainder of the estate will be shared as follows:

the husband, wife or civil partner gets an absolute interest in half of the remainder
the other half is then divided equally between the surviving children
If a son or daughter (or other child where the deceased had a parental role) has already died, their children will inherit in their place.

It would seem therefore that Uncle's children were entitled to a distribution from his estate.

If Auntie died after the death of both her parents, widowed, childless, and intestate, it would seem that her estate

is shared equally between the brothers or sisters.

This does appear to be a situation where an administrator of an administrator is required.

See

https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/media-centre/articles-jan-apr-2017/how-does-probate-work-if-the-executor-has-died/

https://www.co-oplegalservices.co.uk/media-centre/articles-may-aug-2017/how-long-does-probate-take-without-a-will/

In the circumstances, it would be as well to take advice from a solicitor expert in wills and trusts.

https://www.step.org/step-directory

ChilliBob · 9 October 2019 at 2:24PM

Thanks for the reply, it is indeed complex. Not that it matters in law but they were mostly somewhat estranged daughters. I'm 36 and only met, and found out their names at his funeral.

ChilliBob · 9 October 2019 at 2:28PM

That's a lot of info, thanks. Auntie = mum's sister.

Auntie and uncle were married, and lived in England.

They did *not* own a property, they lived in my aunties parents house, the house was never transferred name wise from my (long deceased) grandparents on my mother's side.

Yes, this is certainly looking like a solicitor is required.

Thanks guys.

MEM62 · 9 October 2019 at 4:47PM

I am sorry for your loss.

Can I put forward a view not yet expressed.

You have an aunt and uncle that have both died within a short time of each other and both were intestate. This is a complex situation and you should give careful consideration before you get involved. Intermeddling in the estate will make you personally liable you get things wrong or it gets ugly - as it might with estranged relatives.

I would suggest that reading will not be sufficient. Legal advice should be your first port of call.

ChilliBob · 9 October 2019 at 5:05PM

Thank you. On both points. I completely agree and that is what we are doing, my brother is seeking some professional advice later in the week.

Just trying to establish at least approximately what the situation may be, but seems there are so many moving parts even that is very tricky and open to interpretation.

Thanks

Flugelhorn · 9 October 2019 at 9:55PM

ChilliBob wrote: »

That's a lot of info, thanks. Auntie = mum's sister.

Auntie and uncle were married, and lived in England.

They did *not* own a property, they lived in my aunties parents house, the house was never transferred name wise from my (long deceased) grandparents on my mother's side.

Yes, this is certainly looking like a solicitor is required.

Thanks guys.

You need a solicitor - it sounds like grandparents estate was not fully sorted out, who was grandparents house left to ? was it just auntie or your mum as well?

ChilliBob · 9 October 2019 at 10:19PM

Thanks yep, it's, fast looking that way.
I don't know, I suspect there was no will for either of them either, seems to be a running theme unfortunately.

Complex situation, what next?

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