Complaint advice? Bank accepted cheques with different payee name

Options
124

Comments

  • Terry_Towelling
    Terry_Towelling Posts: 2,279 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    Potentially, you could start the ball rolling by contacting the main banking institutions - name and address (Wife2's and/or father's) should enable it to be traced if it exists. I'd probably guess the 'other' joint account was at the same institution as Wife2's savings account, so that would be my starting point.

    If you think about it, Wife2 was not originally named on your father's current account and Wife2 has only ever spoken of a savings account in her sole name. So, at that time, what was Wife2 doing for normal everyday access to banking? She could have just been relying on your father and his banking provisions for access to money but, given the air of suspicion surrounding everything, that seems doubtful.

    Either way, as several of us have now said (and as you already suspected anyway) someone is probably lying to you. Wife2's solicitor has either not been consulted with regard to this latest correspondence or has deliberately distanced themselves because they do not wish to become entangled in the web of probable deceit.

    Going back to the original issue, do you think Wife2's savings account provider would be willing to put in writing a definitive statement that they would, under no circumstances, have ever accepted a cheque payable to Person A and let it be paid into Person B's account?
  • sazaccount
    sazaccount Posts: 537 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    Options
    Just a thought... I don't know how executorship works but do you have access to your dads credit report? These should show any accounts he has and any "linked" people which wife2 should appear on as a connection for the joint account.
    Thanks to money saving tips and debt repayments/becoming debt free I have been able to work and travel for the last 4 years visiting 12 countries and working within 3 of them. Currently living and working in Canada :beer: :dance:
  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 16,625 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper Photogenic
    Options
    Although the bank should not have done this I don’t see how it has cost the estate anything. Had the bank insisted the cheque was paid into his or a joint account it would simply have been transferred into her savings account as the next step.

    Transfers between spouses are everyday events and there is no way you can show this was against his wishes.
  • xylophone
    xylophone Posts: 44,413 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    Options
    Had the bank insisted the cheque was paid into his or a joint account it would simply have been transferred into her savings account as the next step.

    This is immaterial to the issue.

    The question is quite simply does the OP have proof that a cheque drawn in the sole name of his father was paid into a sole account in the name of another party?

    If he does, he makes a formal complaint and awaits the outcome.
  • zerog
    zerog Posts: 2,478 Forumite
    Options
    sazaccount wrote: »
    Just a thought... I don't know how executorship works but do you have access to your dads credit report? These should show any accounts he has and any "linked" people which wife2 should appear on as a connection for the joint account.

    Not savings accounts.
  • Terry_Towelling
    Terry_Towelling Posts: 2,279 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    zerog wrote: »
    Not savings accounts.


    Maybe so, but it's not the savings account that is an issue here; it's the belief that there is (or was) another current account somewhere in joint names that is being concealed.
  • C_A_Penny
    C_A_Penny Posts: 16 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Options
    Gearing up for a meeting with the solicitor. Meanwhile, I have just been told that due to an oversight by the company secretary, another cheque was issued in March and sent to Wife2's address. The payee was 'The estate of (John Smith)" and yet the cheque was banked successfully! Wife2 was in hospital at the time so the deposit was made by her daughter. They were both fully aware that anything relating to my father's estate should have been passed to me but I was not informed.
  • Terry_Towelling
    Terry_Towelling Posts: 2,279 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Options
    Keep going. Sounds like you are about to expose something Wife2 and daughter would rather you didn't. Do you think the threat of law-enforcement involvement might chivvy them along? It does sound like a deliberate attempt to defraud - even if it isn't, the threat might be enough.
  • IanManc
    IanManc Posts: 2,085 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker Name Dropper
    Options
    C_A_Penny wrote: »
    Gearing up for a meeting with the solicitor. Meanwhile, I have just been told that due to an oversight by the company secretary, another cheque was issued in March and sent to Wife2's address. The payee was 'The estate of (John Smith)" and yet the cheque was banked successfully! Wife2 was in hospital at the time so the deposit was made by her daughter. They were both fully aware that anything relating to my father's estate should have been passed to me but I was not informed.

    If the company had previously been told that any correspondence or cheques relating to the estate should be sent to you and they have sent the cheque elsewhere in March then that is their problem. They should be sending you a replacement cheque and they, not you, should be pursuing Wife2 for their money back.

    The fact that this cheque has been banked despite who it was made payable to would suggest to me that Wife2 has been operating an account with your father's name still on it and is lying about it. That account may have now been transferred into her own name by survivorship if it was a joint account, or if it was a sole account she may have emptied it and closed it by making a fraudulent declaration to the institution where it was held.

    Do not back off from this. It stinks.
  • C_A_Penny
    C_A_Penny Posts: 16 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited 1 December 2019 at 11:23PM
    Options
    [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Update. It still stinks! Solicitor's advice taken and letters sent. NB Estate funds very limited so legal services need to be restricted and used wisely.

    Letter to the (bank name)’s complaints team[/FONT]
    1. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]I asked how two large cheques could have been paid into an account without the payee’s name on it. [/FONT]
    2. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]I quoted The Cheques Act 1992 and Section 81 of the Bills of Exchange Act 1882 which give statutory power to the ‘A/C Payee Only’ or ‘A/C Payee’ crossing. [/FONT]
    3. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]I asked how the third cheque could have been deposited despite the payee being “The Estate of (John Smith)” and the account holder not even being an executor. [/FONT]
    4. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]I mentioned that the directors of (the family company) had expressed concern that the dividend payments had not reached the intended recipient and that the company awaited explanation from me.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Response from (bank name)[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]“As I understand it, you’re unhappy that we’ve paid cheques into an account other than the payee name on the cheque and are keen to understand the reason for this.” [/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Confirmed that the late (John Smith) didn’t hold any accounts with (bank name). [/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]As the cheques were paid into other accounts held with (bank name), they are unable to provide further information without the consent of the account holder or a court order requiring (bank name) to disclose information. [/FONT]
    • [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]“I fully appreciate your feelings regarding your concerns, and I’d like to thank you for bringing these to our attention. However, based on the evidence available to me, I can’t agree that we’ve given a poor service.”[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]The same questions were put to Wife2’s solicitor with the note that previous answers were not satisfactory.
    Eventually, we received this response:

    Dividend cheques, payee “([FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]John Smith[/FONT])”
    1.    There are no other bank accounts in ([FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]John Smith[/FONT])’s name, other than the (one) account which you are aware of.
    2.    The cheques dated March 2016 and March 2017 pre-date ([FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]John Smith[/FONT])’s death. These were paid into a (bank name) savings account in (Wife2)’s sole name at the agreement of ([FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]John Smith[/FONT])’. ([FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]John Smith[/FONT])’ knew that this account did not bear his name and did not seek to maintain sole entitlement to those funds. It was agreed between our client and the late ([FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]John Smith[/FONT])’ that such substantial payments would be placed into (Wife2)’s interest bearing savings account as all monies were shared jointly between them.

    Dividend cheque, payee “The Estate of (John Smith)”
    3.    The recent cheque dated March 2019 had been similarly paid into our client’s (bank name) account as had become customary during (John Smith)’s lifetime. Our client will make arrangements to transfer £xxx into the appointed Estate account.

    The good news is that the 2019 dividend cheque amount has been paid into the estate's account.

    The bad news is, I believe we have been fobbed off yet again and still have no explanation as to how these cheques were accepted.

    I am surprised at the solicitor’s answer and can’t believe they would think we should find the response acceptable.[/FONT]
    1. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]The solicitor knows that as executors we are legally bound to gather information about the estate and we can’t simply ignore what we’ve found. [/FONT]
    2. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]As daughters, it seems that 'someone' simply doesn’t want to answer the question and deems it none of our business. [/FONT]
    3. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]We still believe that depositing the cheques was an illegal transaction – we have been given no evidence to prove otherwise. [/FONT]
    4. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]All monies were NOT shared jointly. My father's bank account had Wife2's name added for convenience as all bills were paid from this account. Wife2's current and savings accounts were both in her name only.[/FONT]
    5. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Interesting use of the word ‘customary’ after just two (possibly three) transactions. [/FONT]
    6. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]If there was some mechanism in place to allow these cheques to be accepted legally, why not disclose it to us? [/FONT]
    7. [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]Or indeed, if some sort of agreement was in place, perhaps it might also have said that my father wasn’t giving up the right to the funds just because they were paid into Wife2’s account? Just a thought.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]IanManc – you questioned whether Wife2/daughter really did visit the solicitor prior to passing on the solicitor’s advice that the bank was “within their rights” to do something which is patently unlawful. I believe this meeting did take place and furthermore, the daughter’s email was copied to the solicitor.

    Still seeking the truth, we are not giving up on this![/FONT]
This discussion has been closed.
★ ★ ★ Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.2K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 608K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173.1K Life & Family
  • 247.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards