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They will only "look into" things which the solicitor and/or surveyor have highlighted to them - sounds like the solicitor has got a worm-can-opening production line ready to go!Rosy_Apple wrote: »I am not even sure what else they could look into?!0 -
They will only "look into" things which the solicitor and/or surveyor have highlighted to them - sounds like the solicitor has got a worm-can-opening production line ready to go!
I just can't really understand why they would want to do this.
I had offered to split it 50/50 with the seller in an effort just to get the exchange to happen next week. The seller has said they can't afford to do that as they are buying something (separate transaction). As if we aren't buying something too!0 -
It really is bizarre.
Fair enough, if the vendor has built a closed structure within the presribed limit, as we thought ours had until the village water main was located, but a patio is just a bit of hard landscaping, like the roads under which sewers often reside.
Was it a specific comment in the survey that set this off?0 -
It really is bizarre.
Fair enough, if the vendor has built a closed structure within the presribed limit, as we thought ours had until the village water main was located, but a patio is just a bit of hard landscaping, like the roads under which sewers often reside.
Was it a specific comment in the survey that set this off?
I don't think so, the surveyor just said that there were manholes in the garden, I think she might have mentioned that she couldn't open one as it was stiff.
I feel like they have got me completely over a barrel, what is oddest of all, is that it is by my own Solicitor's!0 -
Rosy_Apple wrote: »I don't think so, the surveyor just said that there were manholes in the garden, I think she might have mentioned that she couldn't open one as it was stiff.
I feel like they have got me completely over a barrel, what is oddest of all, is that it is by my own Solicitor's!
Are you absolutely sure the manholes are on Thames Water sewers? I'm not asking because I am doubting what you say, but perhaps doubting what you have been told.
If the solicitor is so keen for you to take out the insurance and the person telling you the sewers are Thames Water's is the very same solicitor, then I would be triple checking this point. Have you actually seen in writing that they are in Thames Water's ownership, or is it only an opinion expressed by your solicitor? I'm not suggesting they are lying to you, just that they may have been misinformed.
If one of the manholes couldn't be lifted (not an unusual situation in itself) then nobody actually knows what that particular manhole cover does - it could be anything and not necessarily sewer or drain related. It could be covering a can of worms.
You might want to think about asking the vendor to get Thames Water to come and free up the stuck manhole to confirm what it is. You may find TW decide the sewers have nothing to do with them - often the case when there is the prospect of them having to do something, as opposed to them trying to stop you doing something."In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
Are you absolutely sure the manholes are on Thames Water sewers? I'm not asking because I am doubting what you say, but perhaps doubting what you have been told.
If the solicitor is so keen for you to take out the insurance and the person telling you the sewers are Thames Water's is the very same solicitor, then I would be triple checking this point. Have you actually seen in writing that they are in Thames Water's ownership, or is it only an opinion expressed by your solicitor? I'm not suggesting they are lying to you, just that they may have been misinformed.
If one of the manholes couldn't be lifted (not an unusual situation in itself) then nobody actually knows what that particular manhole cover does - it could be anything and not necessarily sewer or drain related. It could be covering a can of worms.
You might want to think about asking the vendor to get Thames Water to come and free up the stuck manhole to confirm what it is. You may find TW decide the sewers have nothing to do with them - often the case when there is the prospect of them having to do something, as opposed to them trying to stop you doing something.
Thank you for taking the time to write a reply.
I guess I can't be sure that they belong to Thames Water, that is just what the Solicitor has told me. I will try and do some research this weekend.
My husband thinks we may be cutting our noses off to spite our face and its now at the point where we should just buy the insurance. I just can't help feeling frustrated!0 -
When I got my searches back (just north of Oxford), they showed the location of the public sewers (and, annoyingly, I may end up in a similar situation as the sewer just about overlaps with the extension - though the manhole is in the garden). It may be worth going through an searches your solicitor has sent you to work out if you have a similar map.0
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DumbMuscle wrote: »When I got my searches back (just north of Oxford), they showed the location of the public sewers (and, annoyingly, I may end up in a similar situation as the sewer just about overlaps with the extension - though the manhole is in the garden). It may be worth going through an searches your solicitor has sent you to work out if you have a similar map.
The quality and accuracy of what you get will depend on the local authority and the water company.
The original sewer records local authorities held may only contain main sewers in many cases as these made up the vast majority of the public sewer network. The exception were what was known as 'Section 24' sewers which were drains (usually on private land) serving more than one property and in existence before 1 January 1937. These were public non-main sewers. Depending on the authority, Section 24 sewers might be recorded on the official public sewer map, or they could be recorded in a written register. So not all public sewers may be recorded on the maps which local authorities hold or have access to for the purposes of searches.
There is an additional set of records held by building control, departments. These will variously shown the planned / as-built / modified drains within the property boundary - assuming the property was built or modified after record keeping began. These tend not to show who owns the sewer, and any information on a plan was only accurate at the time it was produced. Most private shared drains are now public sewers, but unless the water company has been very diligent these may not be mapped.
Another thing to bear in mind is how the sewer records have evolved over the years. In some areas the maps were kept on OS 1:1250 or 1:2500 scale plans - changes would be made manually. Some authorities arranged 'manhole surveys' with every manhole on the public sewer network being measured and sketched. This data was often eventually added to a computer database, in some cases with an OS grid reference scaled off a 1:1250 plan. This means the manhole position may only be recorded with an accuracy of around 10m.
The digital data that water companies now use for their mapping has either come from the manhole survey database, or by digitising the OS plan records, so in terms of position you shouldn't rely on these maps to be accurate, unless the water company has gone out and resurveyed the network using GPS.
So all of that was a rather long way of saying that if the plan you have shows the sewer just about overlapping an extension it could actually mean the sewer is under the extension, or maybe up to 20m away. Somewhere on the plan there should normally be a disclaimer along the lines that the positions shown are only approximate and should always be verified on site. Having a manhole in the garden might be a good sign though
"In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
Have to say that the village water main, which is plastic and not that old, was mapped wrongly, hence my worry about a new barn apparently built over it.
So I dowsed it, which was surprisingly easy to do, and features on the ground confirmed my 'crude' method of location. It's a good 6-8m from the barn!0 -
i would ask the solicitor / conveyancer for a statement in writing:Rosy_Apple wrote: »I informed my Solicitor of this but they have said they will have to tell our mortgage lender that we are not taking out the insurance and this will push our exchange date back whilst they wait to see if the lender is ok with this. They also suggested that we are 'opening a can of worms' and that this may prompt our lender to look into other details of the property too, they may also decide that they will not allow us the mortgage unless we take out the insurance. The person I spoke to said that this is a risk they wouldn't personally take. I am not even sure what else they could look into?
a) confirming if they get any commission on the sale of indemnity insurance
b) on what lender's criteria are they acting when compared to the publicly available information from Thames Water explaining when a build over agreement is required
c) on what information are they basing their judgement that the "patio" does not meet the above requirements, and what qualifications do they have to make such a judgement
their stance is incredible and you should inform them you will be forwarding the response, along with your complaint, to the Law Society (the solicitor's regulatory body)0
This discussion has been closed.
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