TV Licence article Discussion

Zapito wrote: »

David said it himself:

IE there was a problem, and a solution was found:

QED

I'm not sure you've really got it. The fact that you seem to be applauding people who have got so fed up with TVL that they have taken legal measures against them seems to confirm that.

Virtually every aspect of what TVL do is questionable. From the BBC Policy documents and the threatening letters that are apparently signed-off by by the BBC to the individual field staff with their questionable tactics, flaky understanding of the Law and their propensity to break the Law themselves. It's a stinking mess of the BBC's creation.

We may not need root & branch reform of the entire BBC (although plenty of people think we do), but TV Licensing does need it - desperately. TBH if it remains in near enough its present form after Charter Renewal then I think we will simply reject it entirely as the figment of the BBC's warped imagination that it is.

The thing about the videos is that there are only around 300 TVL field staff. So if there are perhaps 50-100 individuals in those videos, some of them plain rude and some breaking their own rules, then that represents a significant proportion of the workforce. (And it would probably be wrong to assume that all of the others are perfect).

Common breaches of the rules in the initial stage of conversation:-

- Failure to introduce themselves, with their ID card at the beginning of the conversation, without prompting.

- Threats of Search Warrants being used to coerce co-operation.

- Failing to leave when instructed.

Cornucopia wrote: »

I'm not sure you've really got it. The fact that you seem to be applauding people who have got so fed up with TVL that they have taken legal measures against them seems to confirm that.

Virtually every aspect of what TVL do is questionable. From the BBC Policy documents and the threatening letters that are apparently signed-off by by the BBC to the individual field staff with their questionable tactics, flaky understanding of the Law and their propensity to break the Law themselves. It's a stinking mess of the BBC's creation.

We may not need root & branch reform of the entire BBC (although plenty of people think we do), but TV Licensing does need it - desperately. TBH if it remains in near enough its present form after Charter Renewal then I think we will simply reject it entirely as the figment of the BBC's warped imagination that it is.

Seems to me that what you want is to reform the collection system to make it so weak that anyone can get away with watching TV without a licence. The truth is, that this whole problem only arises because some people game the system in order to get free viewing.

If everyone who actually uses the service paid up willingly then there'd be no problem, and no need to send the heavies in. But if some people are going to cheat and lie their way out of paying, which it seems they are, then there has to be an enforcemebnt system. That should not be used as an excuse to narrow the remit of BBC, or trying to close it down, which from many comments on this forum and elsewhere is clearly the underlying intention of some people, no doubt prodded on by commercial interests who resent the BBC's presence.

But if you can devise a better enforcement system which will ensure those who use the service are made to pay for it, yet allow those who choose not to use the service to be left alone, then let's hear it.

Zapito wrote: »

Seems to me that what you want is to reform the collection system to make it so weak that anyone can get away with watching TV without a licence.

Not at all. Ultimately, I want it scrapped entirely.

But if we have to have it (and I'm still waiting for that "pressing social need" argument in favour of the Licence) then it needs to be done fairly, proportionately and lawfully. It's only what we are entitled to under the Law. BBC/TVL must know they are on thin ice, I pity the paucity of integrity amongst those in the BBC who know and do nothing. (I wonder whether we shall see a similar conclusion from the Dame Janet Smith enquiry, if it ever sees the light of day?)

The truth is, that this whole problem only arises because some people game the system in order to get free viewing.

Yes and no. I doubt that the BBC could ever live with the notion of no licence enforcement, even if evader numbers were tiny. It's a curious feature of their culture - they want to be "our" BBC, but they also find us a little bit disgusting, disappointing, beneath them. They would always be suspicious.

If everyone who actually uses the service paid up willingly then there'd be no problem, and no need to send the heavies in.

There is no place for "heavies", but you presumably know that? Also, I think you're being a little black & white in the question of who is evading. Many of the people that TVL deal most harshly with are what we might call "casual evaders" - people who have simply forgotten to pay the fee, or in some cases, have had some kind of failure of bank payment and did not notice. The converse is that those evaders who are knowledgeable about TVL and wary of them can largely (and more importantly, legally) ignore them.

That should not be used as an excuse to narrow the remit of BBC...

I don't think it is. But if it were, let's not forget that the issues with TVL are ultimately down to the BBC. So they are the authors of their own demise, if demise is on the cards.

... or trying to close it down, which from many comments on this forum and elsewhere is clearly the underlying intention of some people...

Realistically, the BBC is not going to close. Whilst people might legitimately express the opinion that it should, that does not make it Government policy. Not that it would be the end of the World if it did close, and I find the cheesy lament of its supporters somewhat nauseating.

But if you can devise a better enforcement system which will ensure those who use the service are made to pay for it, yet allow those who choose not to use the service to be left alone, then let's hear it.

The Scottish system addresses a number of the failings of the English system. Ultimately though we don't need there to be a State permit to watch TV, and it has to go. The BBC can devise whatever other funding mechanism a £5bn organisation ought to be able to come up with.

Zapito wrote: »

What you propose is changing the whole structure of the way BBC is financed, and the basis upon which it is able to be the world leader that it is. It would lead to the dismal world of low quality profit-based advert-financed media that they already have in most places elsewhere, e.g. USA and Republic of Ireland.

I don't see why it would lead to advert-financed media. Netflix is behind a subscription wall, and I don't see them running adverts.....