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  • FIRST POST
    • kgldsun
    • By kgldsun 8th Jan 19, 11:00 PM
    • 107Posts
    • 9Thanks
    kgldsun
    Parent in care home, self funded and no capacity.
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 19, 11:00 PM
    Parent in care home, self funded and no capacity. 8th Jan 19 at 11:00 PM
    Iím so hoping somebody can offer me some help, or maybe move the thread to whom can.
    My Parents were both in separate care homes. Both lacking capacity. I have full POA and also an appointee. After my Father died his half of the home was left to me, and the other half my Mother. Self funding and lacking any capacity. Her half is finally to go to my three children, (whatís left!)
    Pre this terrible scenario we rented the home to a distant family with a view to him buying.
    I am now informed I can sell the house as my Mother will not return home ever, and cannot make decisions. To save deferring care home fees costing more money, I have decided to sell. My renter/relative is begging for a favour with ridiculous 50+k less than itís value. Iíd love him to have it, but not be that generous. I hardly had any dealings with him as a child and would be both depriving myself and my children. Heís not aware of this, but what do I do?
    Does a law exist where I have to sell at going rate.? I suggested there was whereby he suggests we sell when my Parent has died and the powers of be will have no control. I hate every moment of this and donít want to fall out. I do however feel he is being unreasonable.
Page 1
    • elsien
    • By elsien 8th Jan 19, 11:06 PM
    • 18,560 Posts
    • 47,120 Thanks
    elsien
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 19, 11:06 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 19, 11:06 PM
    The power of attorney would not allow you to sell at a reduced rate and knock 50K off the money she needs for her care. At the moment it's her money to be used for her needs, not your inheritance and it's her you'd be depriving, not you and your children.

    Any dubious dealings not in her best interests could lead to the OPG investigating and the power of attorney revoked. Did mum ever say she wanted the relative to be gifted that amount of money, because that's effectively what you're doing.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 9th Jan 19, 9:05 AM
    • 6,105 Posts
    • 7,053 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 19, 9:05 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 19, 9:05 AM
    The LPA requires you to act solely in the best interest of your mother, so her share must be sold at market value. You could make a counter offer to sell at £25k below market value, but the entire discount must come out of your share of the property.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 9th Jan 19, 10:30 AM
    • 4,474 Posts
    • 11,471 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 19, 10:30 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 19, 10:30 AM
    When you say its value have you had it valued by an Estate Agent?


    It may be worth having this thread moved to the house buying/selling board as there may be more issues to consider than simply should I give my relative a £50K discount.
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - JD Williams
    • Mela322
    • By Mela322 10th Jan 19, 11:38 AM
    • 147 Posts
    • 153 Thanks
    Mela322
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 19, 11:38 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 19, 11:38 AM
    The power of attorney would not allow you to sell at a reduced rate and knock 50K off the money she needs for her care. At the moment it's her money to be used for her needs, not your inheritance and it's her you'd be depriving, not you and your children.

    Any dubious dealings not in her best interests could lead to the OPG investigating and the power of attorney revoked. Did mum ever say she wanted the relative to be gifted that amount of money, because that's effectively what you're doing.
    Originally posted by elsien
    The poster has stated they are power of attorney and that they inherited a 25% share of the house when their father passed away. Not sure if any of that makes a difference but you can see why selling at a 50K reduction would make that 25% smaller and their mother's care money smaller.
    • Organza_Lace
    • By Organza_Lace 10th Jan 19, 12:36 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 5,293 Thanks
    Organza_Lace
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 19, 12:36 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 19, 12:36 PM
    it could be classed as deprivation of assets in a financial assessment for home care fees.
    • KatrinaWaves
    • By KatrinaWaves 10th Jan 19, 1:22 PM
    • 505 Posts
    • 872 Thanks
    KatrinaWaves
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 19, 1:22 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 19, 1:22 PM
    How much is the property worth?

    Selling a 500k property for 450k could be okay.

    Selling a 125k property for 75k would not.
    • kgldsun
    • By kgldsun 10th Jan 19, 1:31 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    kgldsun
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 19, 1:31 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 19, 1:31 PM
    Thank you for the replies which I would like to say thank you for.
    Itís such a minefield. It pleases me that I will not be the bad guy in not selling for such an undercut.
    Iím actually surprised anybody would expect me to. Although in his favour, he will be thinking the whole house is up for the Ďcare homeí being able to take and does not know of what was left to me or my children.
    • arielsmelody
    • By arielsmelody 10th Jan 19, 3:28 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    arielsmelody
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 19, 3:28 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 19, 3:28 PM
    Depending on the actual figures involved, you might be able to justify selling to him at a slightly lower price because you don't have to worry about estate agents fees etc. So you might be able to find a bit of a compromise.


    I'd be upfront though about the actual ownership of the house - he's very likely to find out at some point and it might lead to unnecessary bad feeling if he thinks you haven't been straight with him.
    • Primrose
    • By Primrose 10th Jan 19, 3:33 PM
    • 8,551 Posts
    • 30,080 Thanks
    Primrose
    There is no reason that your relative needs to know the ownership proportions of your mum's home. There is a very simple rule that attorneys must act only innthe interest of the donor and selling the property at a discount would be depriving your mum of money needed to fund her care home needs until her death.

    How would you feel if you sold to the relative at a discount then your mum,s care home funding ran out and the local authority insisted she had to be moved to a less pleasant cheaper home where she was deeply unhappy or less well cared for?. Social Services are desperately short of funding for the elderly so your mum's security needs to be protected at all costs.

    Presumably your relative has no idea of the level of your mum's financial assets and in any case it's none of his business. You are the attorney and will have an idea how long her savings will last to continue funding her care home fees before the house needs to be sold. Brexit, economy and job security uncertainty issues seem to be impacting more on property values in certain parts of the country so seek advice on whether now is the best time to sell the property if cash assets for funding are not running low. I would certainly not sell the house at a £50k discount. I think your relative's expectations are unreasonable and if your mother were compus mentis I,m sure she wouldn,t do so either if it meant depriving her grandchildren if money were to be left over in her estate.

    Keep your proportional ownership of the property to yourself and let your relative match the lowest reasonable offer you are prepared to accept in your mother's best interests.
    Last edited by Primrose; 10-01-2019 at 3:47 PM.
    • troubleinparadise
    • By troubleinparadise 10th Jan 19, 7:55 PM
    • 1,066 Posts
    • 1,811 Thanks
    troubleinparadise
    Thatís a very cheeky request of your relative to buy the house cheap and profit from your Motherís distressing circumstances.

    The care home will not be ďtakingĒ your motherís house - she will be paying the fees charged for her care as she exceeds the minimum threshold for Local Authority (LA) funding, however unfair all that is or seems. It is what it is. Should her assets fall below that threshold she can apply for LA funding as needed.

    You can use the OPG as your official reason for not doing as he wants - you have to get the fair market price for your mother, it is out of your hands.

    You are certainly under no obligation to accept his derisory offer.
    • kgldsun
    • By kgldsun 10th Jan 19, 9:18 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    kgldsun
    Thank you for your words which confirm how I feel, but am unable to say. What an awful situation I feel I am in. I think I wear too many hats and want to please everybody.
    That is whom I will use to confirm why I have to do the sale as a market value. Although really I shouldnít have to as people say.
    Many thanks again and kind regards.
    • kgldsun
    • By kgldsun 10th Jan 19, 9:24 PM
    • 107 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    kgldsun
    Value
    Yes I understand. The values range from 180k to 280k depending on condition. They are not too old so a lot of the condition is cosmetic. My Mums was kept very well, albeit s little old fashioned. My relative has come along confirming he will be buying and has done some cosmetic work. Although not anything near 5k. In the meantime a a £550 rent and a max he can purchase at of approx 160k.
    A difficult one.
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 11th Jan 19, 9:01 AM
    • 1,265 Posts
    • 1,663 Thanks
    Flugelhorn
    Have you had Estate Agents in to value the property - that would be the figure to suggest to your relative (minus a bit for not using agents etc)?
    I think this is quite important. I appreciate you are are in difficult situation (more tricky as he is resident in the house) but I can't help imagining that your relative saw you coming and has offered 160, will do a bit of work and the house will be back on the market at 280 next year.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 11th Jan 19, 12:21 PM
    • 5,795 Posts
    • 9,900 Thanks
    Gavin83
    As others have pointed out if you sell at below market value the discount will need to come out of your share. Therefore the question is are you happy to gift this relative £50k? I'm guessing given that you've had little to do with him and you aren't a millionaire the answer is no.

    You need to be a bit brave here and not let him walk all over you.
    • troubleinparadise
    • By troubleinparadise 11th Jan 19, 12:26 PM
    • 1,066 Posts
    • 1,811 Thanks
    troubleinparadise
    Yes I understand. The values range from 180k to 280k depending on condition. They are not too old so a lot of the condition is cosmetic. My Mums was kept very well, albeit s little old fashioned. My relative has come along confirming he will be buying and has done some cosmetic work. Although not anything near 5k. In the meantime a a £550 rent and a max he can purchase at of approx 160k.
    A difficult one.
    Originally posted by kgldsun
    Market it through an agent. Whilst it goes against the MSE grain to spend where you have your own buyer, I have a nasty feeling this relative could well bully you and possibly even reduce the amount he wishes to pay at the eleventh hour.

    You need 3rd party support whilst you are trying to deal with all this in stressful circumstances.

    You might even find another willing buyer or two out there happy to pay more than has been offered. Your relative is a chancer and charlatan!
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 11th Jan 19, 1:52 PM
    • 6,105 Posts
    • 7,053 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    You are going to have to be hard nosed about this. If this person can’t pay the market value they need to find somewhere else their price range.
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