stop/start

DUTR · 19 July 2014 at 12:13AM

pulliptears wrote: »

Fiat 500 driver, there is a button on the dash to disable but you need to press it before every journey.

Mine also doesn't kick in until the car is warm but I mostly keep it turned off simply because I can't get my head around that stalled feeling lol

Once you pass the ludite stage, you wonder why other cars don't have it, it seems starnge to be sat at traffic lights for 2 mins with the engine running unnecessarily. In a manula I understand the car has to be in neutral, however it restarts as soon as the clutch is depressed, , some cars the footbrake has to be held on, others as like an auto, as soon as the accelerator is touched the vehicle restarts, I have not come across a situation where it is best disabled yet.

Stoke · 19 July 2014 at 1:40AM

Only ever sat in one car with stop/start and that was a 3L. There was a switch on the dash called Eco which controlled Stop/Start and also cut the BHP from 70 to just 41.

No wonder it achieved 117MPG and is still the world record holder for miles per gallon on an actual road.

Richard53 · 19 July 2014 at 4:40AM

DUTR wrote: »

Once you pass the ludite stage, you wonder why other cars don't have it

Here's my guess:

Given that with modern technology and appropriately-specified components (mainly battery capacity, alternator power and starter motor durability) there is no reason not to have stop/start ...

...except that for over 100 years, the main worry about having a car is 'will it start?' Adverts still contain lines like 'starts first time', which with modern machinery should be fairly redundant. Deliberately stopping the car in traffic seems to go against a century of motoring wisdom. I think it will take a while for this to be overcome.

And not necessarily Luddite, either: the whole stop/start thing depends on the engine being in a perfect state of tune, and when a car is new it is brilliant. But after 100k miles, with worn injectors, bores, valves etc, will it be such a good idea? For use in traffic, the re-start must be instant. A car that has to churn on the starter for a few seconds, as many older cars do, would be a liability if it did that a hundred times a day in city traffic. I can see why people are not keen.

gilbert_and_sullivan · 19 July 2014 at 5:08AM

Good post Richard.

Just to add, the starting charging systems on these vehicles have no doubt been designed to cope (well thats what they will tell us), but i don't hear of any makers putting money where mouth is by offering 10 year warranties on the system and its components, and i fully expect the cost of replacement starters etc to far outweigh the savings made over time.

If people want stopstart and thinks its good, great, buy into it and use it, but some people can't accept that not all of us are actually impressed in any way by these latest techonologies, just something else, unecessary, to go expensively wrong...electric parking brake another example.

Richard53 · 19 July 2014 at 5:40AM

Which of course means that more cars will be scrapped when they are otherwise fine, just because something vital has gone wrong and it will cost more than the car is worth to put it right. Ironic when the whole idea of stop/start is to help the environment.
Meanwhile, the Series 2 Land Rover, most of whose environmental costs are decades in the past, chugs on, being repaired as needed, usually by the owner.

DUTR · 19 July 2014 at 8:46AM

gilbert_and_sullivan wrote: »

Good post Richard.

Just to add, the starting charging systems on these vehicles have no doubt been designed to cope (well thats what they will tell us), but i don't hear of any makers putting money where mouth is by offering 10 year warranties on the system and its components, and i fully expect the cost of replacement starters etc to far outweigh the savings made over time.

If people want stopstart and thinks its good, great, buy into it and use it, but some people can't accept that not all of us are actually impressed in any way by these latest techonologies, just something else, unecessary, to go expensively wrong...electric parking brake another example.

I didn't necessarily want it, but that is how the car that I wanted is produced, same with the EPB and DRL. I just don't feel they are as bad as some are making out, I remember having my 1st fuel injected car and the doubters were waining on about them being troublesome, never had a problem with injection or turbo, engineering has moved on somewhat from the 70s and the Renault 5 Gordini and Triumph Dolomite , how many recently produced cars have a manual choke or carburettor?

worried_jim · 19 July 2014 at 9:02AM

Stoke wrote: »

Only ever sat in one car with stop/start and that was a 3L. There was a switch on the dash called Eco which controlled Stop/Start and also cut the BHP from 70 to just 41.

No wonder it achieved 117MPG and is still the world record holder for miles per gallon on an actual road.

117mpg form a 3L? My 3L Supra did about 20mpg, less when I was booting it....happy days. What I'd give to get 20 mpg these days.

I am guessing 0.3l? Which car was it Stoke?

motorguy · 19 July 2014 at 9:53AM

kpwll wrote: »

I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this but I have to wait between 10 & 20 mins for them to come out of school and due to illness do not tolerate cold or getting chilled very well. I will add that I do feel guilty when keeping the engine running.

The car will automatically restart itself if if you've the heater on and the heat level drops. Also it will restart if you have your lights on if there is a risk of the battery level dropping too much.

On particularly cold days it wont operate at all.

I remember my Passat Bluemotion had it and i took delivery of the car on 2nd Jan. I think it was near march before it actually started working!

motorguy · 19 July 2014 at 9:56AM

worried_jim wrote: »

117mpg form a 3L? My 3L Supra did about 20mpg, less when I was booting it....happy days. What I'd give to get 20 mpg these days.

I am guessing 0.3l? Which car was it Stoke?

Hes talking about one of these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Lupo#Lupo_3L

So named because it used 3 litres of fuel per 100 kilometres.

motorguy · 19 July 2014 at 10:03AM

Richard53 wrote: »

Here's my guess:

Given that with modern technology and appropriately-specified components (mainly battery capacity, alternator power and starter motor durability) there is no reason not to have stop/start ...

...except that for over 100 years, the main worry about having a car is 'will it start?' Adverts still contain lines like 'starts first time', which with modern machinery should be fairly redundant. Deliberately stopping the car in traffic seems to go against a century of motoring wisdom. I think it will take a while for this to be overcome.

And not necessarily Luddite, either: the whole stop/start thing depends on the engine being in a perfect state of tune, and when a car is new it is brilliant. But after 100k miles, with worn injectors, bores, valves etc, will it be such a good idea? For use in traffic, the re-start must be instant. A car that has to churn on the starter for a few seconds, as many older cars do, would be a liability if it did that a hundred times a day in city traffic. I can see why people are not keen.

Older diesel cars tend to churn when cold if compression is low, fuel pump weak, or heater plugs knackered. It does tend to be a "cold start" issue though, so once the car is warm its usually fine all day, hence the "taking several seconds to restart in city traffic" scenario is unlikely to happen.

Also, stop start has been around for years now - and there are many around with 100-200K+ miles on them with no real issues.

If badly worn engines / injectors / pumps / heater plugs on older cars were to cause stop / start problems - god forbid that people might have to actually maintain their cars - i'm sure the function can be programmed out of the ECU if needs be.

stop/start

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