Charging Order? The myth

DAKOTA45 · 11 March 2015 at 2:52PM

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

DAKOTA45 - whilst I empaphise with your view that we should be 'allowed to correct any obvious errors' that is very unlikely to be the case re a court order.

As you are in correspondence with the local office/caseworker I will leave it with them to consider and respond as appropriate.

Hi LRR

Curiouser & curiouser… I have just got the papers from LR case worker and it seems the hearing for the Interim Charging Order was also made 'without notice'…& not even at my local court where the Final Charge was made…

So no opportunity to make any representations at that hearing, either… this is the first I have heard of this hearing which took place back in May last year!!

They made no mention to LR of the Judgement of 3 November, either… Scotch Mist, that one!

I have no idea at all how to approach this...:(

Land_Registry · 11 March 2015 at 2:58PM

DAKOTA45 - as long as you have got the paperwork then you know how things were applied for, registered and why.

Next steps would be seeking legal advice if you are considering challenging the process taken to achieve the orders. As the court issued the orders any challenge would presumably be done through them.

As mentioned previously we are not a party to the court proceedings and the legislative requirements are quite separate from the registration ones. Others may be able to post some advice but I am unsure how many would have encountered the same set of circumstances previously.

Coinmachine · 11 March 2015 at 11:34PM

eggbox wrote: »

Coinmachine

My view is that a CO not being granted is as rare as an OFS being granted. However, I have always advised attendance as on the day you may just be the exception and if you don't attend you definitely WILL get a CO against you (and I have to say, given your circumstances and attempts to try and repay through a DMP, they deserve not to get a CO granted!)

And whilst the Courts do take a first come, first served attitude to creditors seeking a CO, the Judge is supposed to take into account other creditors interests so I would play heavily on that and ensure the DMP is pushed as your intention to repay.

But you are taking the right attitude regarding the CO on jointly owned property as there is little they can do after a CO is granted. You can also reduce your payment to them to £1 a month stating you now have to repay other creditors more to avoid them proceeding with a CO (which may be worth pointing out to them before they proceed as the threat of a CO may just be a scare tactic to up your payment?)

An update I have now heard further from Nationwide a short letter informing me that I should now deal with their solicitors shoosmiths on the debt. So frustrating as I will be increasing my DMP payment from next month which will shave 15 months off the total of it, is it worth my while writing to Shoosmiths or Nationwide to point this out in the hope they will call off the dogs?

andy262_2 · 12 March 2015 at 1:56AM

eggbox wrote: »

andy262

LRR may be able to shed some light on this later but it may help to help to confirm your situation a little further by explaining if you are a sole/joint owner, what is registered on your deeds and the sums involved?

Thanks for taking the time to reply,I spent some time yesterday doing a comprehensive reply only to find after posting it hadn't arrived.

Briefly:

Solicitor said he hasn't done a transfer like this so he was expecting LR to requisition him.

Just me named on title

I've spoke to land reg a few times, I told them bank will not comply with consent restriction form N or P I think, myself and a solicitor in the attempt 2 years ago got passed from pillar to post, wasted days on phone and no replies to correspondence, the property is worth nothing like what it was valued at, I wanted to negotiate a settlement but it took so long the purchaser lost interest, now property is worth less after some break inns boiler, radiators, pipe, wiring. LRR I spoke to said it's nothing that can't be sorted, read practice guid 19 and 24.

The bank knows about my parents contribution, manager arranged an ifa to remortgage their house, he reckoned 4 or 5 years they would probably arrange a new loan to to clean things up, first time we have done anything like this, took the managers advice as true.

My major concern is getting this money back to parents, interest only is coming to an end soon for them, no method of repaying apart from selling, they will only at best only have two thirds of sale price to move with and they are no well enough to potentially lose it.

I had to try transfer due to circumstances.

THANKS

DAKOTA45 · 16 March 2015 at 9:05AM

Gosh… it's all gone very quiet on here!!

I wonder if there is anyone who can give me some advice re my application to the court on Form N244, please?

I am just wondering what l should include with the form…

I am making an application to set aside and stay a Judgement Order…

I wrote to the judgement creditor's solicitor with my complaint at how they have (unlawfully, in my opinion) achieved the Order, but they have not replied… should I include this letter with the form so that the Judge is aware that I have given them prior notice of my intention to challenge the order?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated… URGENT!! Thanx!!

eggbox · 16 March 2015 at 10:08PM

Hi Dakota

On the actual N244 form you need to briefly state why you are applying to the Court to set aside the Judgement Order (but you don't need to ask the Court to stay the order as setting it aside cancels the Judgement Order.) You should also tick the box that requests the application be heard AT a hearing.

You will also need to attach a Witness Statement with your application that sets out in more detail the actual reasons why you are applying for set aside of the Order.

The only advice I can give on the WS is to be brief and to the point! You will get your chance, at the hearing, to expand your reasons but District Judges can be easily put off if you put to much bloated waffle in your application.

So be to the point and give them enough to see that you have a good enough reason to question the Judgement Order and to ask the Court to set it aside.

DAKOTA45 · 17 March 2015 at 9:29AM

Hi Eggbox… many thanks for the advice… I have already sent the form as I was worried about the time limit…
I have ticked the box for a 15 minute hearing and as my complaint relates to the creditor's failure to follow correct CPR, I have just outlined this in the box where you attach a draft & have also included two papers with the various authorities relating to non compliance with the relevant CPR…

I am just scared that when it comes to the hearing I won't be able to argue the case as I don't know enough about the law…

I was told that the creditor's failure to follow the correct appeal procedure when requesting a variation of the original JO means that the new JO is unlawful and should be extinguished & that I can elect 'rescission of the contract'…

This is a very complicated area of the law, but without legal advice, you are up the creek…

The judges I have met so far have been atrocious in allowing errors of law to be waived, which, had I known about I could have argued against… I only found out after the hearing by looking things up… but it's too late by then.

This should have been done & dusted years ago as the creditor made (what should have been) a fatal error, but his lawyers kept quiet and the judge, when challenged by me after the hearing, just said that it was obvious that the creditor "intended to rely on such & such", when there was no evidence to suggest that at all… I was truly stitched up!

They walk all over self litigants… so much for access to justice!

What a mess!!

I will post any developments….

eggbox · 17 March 2015 at 9:46AM

Hi Dakota

I've said many times the Law works best for those how know how to use it. If you add in the arbitrary nature of District Judges on the day it can be an absolute minefield.

All you can do now is your best on the day; but just be as clear and as precise as you can (with the relevant paperwork to hand to pass to the DJ) explaining the reasons how the rules weren't followed and why it makes the JO unlawful.

Good luck and please update the board of the outcome?

Coinmachine · 17 March 2015 at 11:24AM

Coinmachine wrote: »

An update I have now heard further from Nationwide a short letter informing me that I should now deal with their solicitors shoosmiths on the debt. So frustrating as I will be increasing my DMP payment from next month which will shave 15 months off the total of it, is it worth my while writing to Shoosmiths or Nationwide to point this out in the hope they will call off the dogs?

Eggbox - Just shamlessley bumping my thread, grateful for your views if you have time. Thanks.

eggbox · 17 March 2015 at 11:51AM

Coinmachine

No problem. What is the actual situation regarding the CO application, have they actually applied for one yet?

Charging Order? The myth

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