Cleats. Are they worth the stress?

I also took part in a big Sportive last week with 5600 riders, certainly a lot on clipless with a few on flats including myself as well as my baggy shorts, loose t-shirt and backpack amongst a sea of lycra. Despite running solo, not being much of a road cyclist and running solo I finished in the top 20% ahead of thousands of other clipless riders so you can get good performance on flats.

The usual counter is to tell me how much faster I'd be on clipless but for the two years I was on clipless (even trying different pedal systems) I was slower as I never liked the feel of the clipless pedals. It's the same reason those who like clipless pedals do better with them because they like the feel of them.

For that reason I certainly think it's worth trying clipless pedals but at the same time, if you don't like them then don't stick it out because people are telling you to. The pulling on upstroke has long been disproved (regardless of whether you believe you are doing it or not), the performance advantages are extremely small at best and you don't need clipless to do road racing, endurance racing, all day rides etc.

I dislike taking part in clipless threads as it's always the same but while I don't regret trying clipless pedals, I do regret sticking with them which wasn't just a waste of time and money but really killed my interest in road cycling at the time. I realise why people don't like speaking against clipless as they're treated as heretics daring to question the mighty doctrine but I wish more people had at the time spoken up.

John

House_Martin wrote: »

Disc brakes for road bikes, talk about overkill, they are certainly not needed also..

Same with disc brakes on cars. No need for anything other than crappy drum brakes.


Funny how motorists have been conned into the fad of having four wheels on their cars when they only need three. Why drive anything other than a Reliant Robin?

House_Martin wrote: »

Cotton makes much more sense than artificial fibres

Ha ha! Now that is just silly! Anyone who has ridden more than a mile or two at a very slow pace will know how bad cotton is compared to synthetic base layers, jerseys, shorts, etc.

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

And rather ironically also missing the point as well...if you're slipping on flats, then change to better pedals or shoes. Even riding in horrendous wet and muddy conditions, I don't ever slip on my flats nor should anyone if they're set up properly. It's even easier on the road as conditions are much less treacherous for the pedals.

It's a similar argument to the one people make for 1x systems because apparently no-one can ever set up a front derailleur any more.

John

Nothing ironic at all about that.


With flats and shoes you can and will slip in certain conditions, if your feet move around the pedal, if you don't seat spot on etc. Moreover, if you have your bike properly fitted you still won't always be at the right angle or position with flats as they are wider and you move around vs being fixed with cleats. Fixed pedals are undeniably more reliable in terms of keeping connected to the bike because of what they are, no matter how much grip your shoe has or how many studs the pedal has.



Any which way, you've made points, each one has been debunked, so you're moving onto it being about personal preference, which is fine but isn't factual.


Pro riders on the big stage use cleats, they have the backing of multi million pound investments, testing etc and you don't see them trying to race Froome et al with flats on. Says it all

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

I also took part in a big Sportive last week with 5600 riders, certainly a lot on clipless with a few on flats including myself as well as my baggy shorts, loose t-shirt and backpack amongst a sea of lycra. Despite running solo, not being much of a road cyclist and running solo I finished in the top 20% ahead of thousands of other clipless riders so you can get good performance on flats.

The usual counter is to tell me how much faster I'd be on clipless but for the two years I was on clipless (even trying different pedal systems) I was slower as I never liked the feel of the clipless pedals. It's the same reason those who like clipless pedals do better with them because they like the feel of them.

For that reason I certainly think it's worth trying clipless pedals but at the same time, if you don't like them then don't stick it out because people are telling you to. The pulling on upstroke has long been disproved (regardless of whether you believe you are doing it or not), the performance advantages are extremely small at best and you don't need clipless to do road racing, endurance racing, all day rides etc.

I dislike taking part in clipless threads as it's always the same but while I don't regret trying clipless pedals, I do regret sticking with them which wasn't just a waste of time and money but really killed my interest in road cycling at the time. I realise why people don't like speaking against clipless as they're treated as heretics daring to question the mighty doctrine but I wish more people had at the time spoken up.

John

Hi John,

There are always options for cyclists, if you get on with flat pedals, that's fine, but the benefits of clipless for those who like them are not imaginary. The Broker research seems subjective and slightly biased as it seems to ignore the primary benefits of clipless, namely the positive connection between leg and pedal, the sense of oneness with the bike, and the benefit of the upstroke *as and when required*. I notice that RCUK, who made the Broker research public, ignore the research a few years later when they did a piece on the benefits of clipless https://roadcyclinguk.com/how-to/technique/beginners-guide-how-to-use-clipless-road-cycling-pedals/

Like you I ride solo on sportives, not so many these days, because I object to paying fees to join a group of people when I could do the ride for free. So I only do about 2 per year. I was 3rd in my last sportive out of 250 riders, and 9th out of 800 in the previous one, pretty OK for a 60 year old; but to get those places you need to be constantly on the power, maintaining momentum over rolling hills or short sharp gradients.

We all use upstroke when cycling, whether its merely enough to combat gravity to raise the leg back to its highest PE, or we may add a little to assist the downstroke. That range may allow a few extra watts to the downstroke during normal riding, but there are other parameters, namely your heart rate and fitness which mitigate the effectiveness of the upstroke during normal aerobic riding. The benefit of the upstroke is to add another muscle group to the mix during anaerobic work, which is often essential to maintain momentum, or to span a gap between groups of riders. These occasional bursts of power are essential to maintain position or momentum. The powered upstroke also provides added resistance for the downstroke to push against.

So the judicious use of the upstroke, which is only available with clipless pedals, can make a big difference to your individual or race times and positions. But the main benefits for me have to be the security and confidence in the powered downstroke, especially in rough roads, and the feeling that I am at one with the bike.

House_Martin wrote: »

This link proves you completely wrong about your imagined "upstroke " nonsense. It suggests its even has a negative effect.
The best cyclists, or the strongest ones are the professionals ( I m currently watching on TV every day in the Giro Italia showing every day on Quest ) simply apply a lot more power on the downstroke part of the pedaling action.
Just like all pro s , golfers , cricketers , footballers they all hit harder , faster , stronger than amateurs .https://www.gearandgrit.com/the-cycling-myth-that-wont-die-pedaling-circles/

Brat posted the link to point out the magazine had printed 2 opposite opinions about the same thing.


If you look at the science, the pull up effect is fairly limited as the vast majority of work (98.6% on low workloads) comes from the downstroke but it does reduce the positive work needed from the other pedal on the down stroke


https://journals.humankinetics.com/doi/abs/10.1123/ijsb.7.1.29



Clipless are better for performance for the all around gains such as control of bike, keeping the foot on the pedal permanently with no danger of slip which is vital for a difficult climb or a sprint finish. Similarly on unexpected bumps or vibrations (particularly with reduced visibility at night) a clipless pedal keeps you on track and still moving, a flat your foot can come off (no matter how much you spend on good shoes and pedals - which was an argument AGAINST clipless originally if you read back - you can't stop that happening). It may also help save energy as you're not having to keep your foot pressed to a flat pedal



The fact that all the pro teams use them says that their testing shows clipless is better than flat for pro level riders for performance