Paypal - credit rating and recovery?! Help desperately needed

soolin · 7 August 2019 at 8:19AM

RFW wrote: »

Not to alarm you but you may want to be prepared to be slapped with a charge from Ebay too.

Can you clarify how the instalments were set up. Was it a single transaction that Paypal split up or did the buyer just send you separate transactions?

Good point, I was assuming random transactions. However reading up on this it does seem that PayPal now offer an instalment plan in some cases, and if buyer has a PayPal plan set up correctly through PayPal with an agreed schedule and confirmation of buyer protection- then they might still have full buyer protection which would mean an easy win for them.

I haven't seen the instalment system used on a U.K./overseas transaction , I can only find examples of companies accessing it, and I am not finding PayPal easy to navigate for info in such an unusual case.

papaface · 7 August 2019 at 8:33AM

soolin wrote: »

Please read the OP and the responses, you have misunderstood the situation. PayPal have full seller protection, they don't just pay buyers back where sellers can invoke their PayPal protection, however in this case OP unfortunately did not follow the PayPal instructions and gave up their automatic right to protection.

You mention needing the package signed for, this is clearly stated in the OP as well, and the situation remains that this won't help if the rest of the seller requirements are not followed.

The question here is what happens when it appears that neither buyer nor seller have full protection , and I'm struggling to find anything that can answer that definitely either way.

If this goes to a case of fraudulent transaction further down the line then I suspect buyer would win, as the bank claim of fraud cannot be defended without proof of postage to the address given by PayPal (all that is required for a claim of fraudulent use of funds)

I haven't misunderstood, you have misinterepted my comment about the delivery. I know they have tracking which is why I said it was their "one hope". Having read your comments you appear to be saying the same thing as me.
PayPal seller protection is a pile of crap and cannot by relied upon at all, there's a reason why paypalsucks.com exists.

soolin · 7 August 2019 at 9:20AM

papaface wrote: »

I haven't misunderstood, you have misinterepted my comment about the delivery. I know they have tracking which is why I said it was their "one hope". Having read your comments you appear to be saying the same thing as me.
PayPal seller protection is a pile of crap and cannot by relied upon at all, there's a reason why paypalsucks.com exists.

Paypal seller protection though for INR is absolute - follow the rules and you are completely safe, in this instance we are trying to work out what happens when seller has no seller protection. The fact that item was signed for is useful in that if OP has a further legal route if they chose, not with paypal but legally. However the fact that this was a transaction that was cross border makes that probably unusable.

However, I agree that there may be some mileage in the signed for status. OP, add th etracking details to the case now if you haven't already done so - don't mention the address at all unless asked. Then phone paypal and say you have full tracking showing delivery (again don't mention the address) and invoke your seller protection. It's worth a try for a start. If you let this close against you then you willlose the money - so you need to be proactive.

Paypal sucks used to be posted several times a week on the ebay forum here and on other sites, I don't think I've seen mention of it for years now as it is mainly discredited. Bear in mind that there are hundreds of thousands of successful transactions a day, the small amount that go wrong get picked up and that's all you see. Many of the regulars on the ebay and other forum take thousands a month without problems, you just need to understand the rules.

I don't want to go too far off topic but for any newbies reading this - before you use any financial institution read how it works- if you don't want to read the full T and Cs at least read the basics. This is taken from a standard paypal 'you have funds' email: (the red is my own highlight). That is on every email, it's on every transaction in a paypal account, it's on the sticky postage thread on the ebay forum. Yes we can stop these scumbag scammers, it makes me angry that people are prepared to scam like this- but ultimately we need to ensure that people take basic precautions to protect themselves as well.

This item is eligible for Seller Protection.
Don't forget to:

Send the item to the shipping address below within 7 days.
Please note:items delivered in person or to a different address are not cover by Seller Protection.
Use a trackable proof of delivery.

Find out more about Seller Protection

Reversals:
Please be aware that your payment can still be reversed, (e.g. if it is subject to a chargeback), even after you have posted the item to your buyer. Complying with PayPal's protection programs and following the trading guidelines, in our Safety Advice Centre helps to protect you from things like chargebacks.

EDIT: If you spot it the spelling error is on the emails as well, that is an actual cut and paste.

Candyapple · 7 August 2019 at 12:49PM

How long after receiving the item has the buyer now claimed to have not received it?

In the Paypal dispute you have to respond to, have you entered the tracking number?

I'm amazed you managed to find a courier company who were willing to accept you posting not only an antique item worth so much money in order to cover the compensation claim should the item be lost/stolen/damaged, but also with the item being a breakable! Most UK companies don't even accept that for being sent to mainland UK let alone to China! Out of interest, how much did the shipping cost you?

gavinsmith1980 · 7 August 2019 at 6:35PM

Hello,

Thanks for your posts so far, very helpful!

I guess the most important thing for me, is that is doesn’t ruin my credit rating or effects my chances of getting a mortgage!

Papaface, when you say my account, do you mean my bank account or Paypal account? I am very concerned they will try and take money from my bank account! How will Paypal contact me to get the money if i lose, my fear is people knocking on my door for money! I think I would rather go to court that let Paypal be judge and jury!

In terms of the Ebay charges, I have now paid these in full as they approached regarding and I paid them.

Initially I sent a request for £8,000, which he then rejected because he said he card wouldn’t allow him to pay such a large amount in one go. The buyer then sent four separate payments of £2,000 which he sent but I did not request these as I has already sent one for £8,000. Once I had received all four £2,000 payments the originally £8,000 was then cancelled, hope that makes sense?! So it was four separate transactions.

I paid Mailboxes etc to pack and send the items via UPS, which was a fully tracked and signed for service, a specially built wooden crate was made for it and sent to the address the buyer requested. I have approximately 20/30 emails from the buyer, a few with the address on it but sadly just not the same as the Paypal one!

The address I sent the vase too, is clearly one the buyer uses, as he purchased another item from me for 99p, was sent to that address!!

Full tracking details were sent to the buyer throughout and were added to straight away to all of the Paypal payments, at no point did the buyer say the raise an issue of a different address?!

Do you think I should respond to the case and just say this is tracking information for the vase, leave it at that and see what the response is? I have 7 days left to reply!

The vase signed for and then the then three days later claimed it hasn’t been received, all tracking details were entered as soon as Mailboxes gave me them.

soolin · 7 August 2019 at 6:51PM

Do you think I should respond to the case and just say this is tracking information for the vase, leave it at that and see what the response is? I have 7 days left to reply!

Well you need to do something, if the case times out against you then that's it, PayPal will chase you for the money and buyer walks away from this unscathed. UNless anyone can think of anything better I would suggest doing what I mentioned above, add tracking to the PayPal case immediately, follow that up with a further note on case saying you are invoking seller protection, and then even phone PayPal and again claim seller protection. Do not mention the address at all, obviously don't lie if they ask or need proof but if you can get this closed in your favour you can worry about buyer appealing later.

If you lose this case then PayPal will try and recover funds from you, but if you have unlinked your bank account, cancelled your DD and removed your cards they can't raid your bank account. However they will chase for the money and their debt collectors can be unpleasant. Hopefully it won't come to that, but if it does go to one of the other forums on here about bankruptcy and bailiffs and make sure you ask about their powers, and exactly how far they can go in door stepping you. Do not allow bailiffs or debt collectors to exceed their power by one iota.

Obviously , and again this is worst case scenario, you will,lose your PayPal account, and any family or friend's accounts that PayPal deem connected. That means no more eBay selling, but with your off eBay sale having been caught by eBay you are probably restricted now anyway.

So, get the racking number uploaded and see where this goes.

gavinsmith1980 · 7 August 2019 at 7:12PM

Thanks for your help.

The tracking information was uploaded and a link to the exact location also, but guess I will can add in the case as well and see what happens?! know I need to respond soon!

Do you think it’s worth changing my addresses on Paypal and Ebay before it gets to debt collectors? My old address is a vacant property and will be some for some time, my friends who owns the property says I can use it if I want too…he is aware of the situation!

Whatever happens, I cannot bring myself to pay back Paypal. If a court ruled I had too then i would and likewise with a bank/loans I have always paid everything on time and never had an issue!

soolin · 7 August 2019 at 7:42PM

gavinsmith1980 wrote: »

Thanks for your help.

The tracking information was uploaded and a link to the exact location also, but guess I will can add in the case as well and see what happens?! know I need to respond soon!

Do you think it’s worth changing my addresses on Paypal and Ebay before it gets to debt collectors? My old address is a vacant property and will be some for some time, my friends who owns the property says I can use it if I want too…he is aware of the situation!

Whatever happens, I cannot bring myself to pay back Paypal. If a court ruled I had too then i would and likewise with a bank/loans I have always paid everything on time and never had an issue!

PayPal already have your address, changing it now won't make any difference.

As for court no one has yet shown any evidence on any forum I use showing that PayPal took them to court , although this is a bit higher value wise than most, but not the highest debt I've seen. However court is what you need to avoid as that's when you start getting into problems with credit markers and CCjs if it goes wrong and you can't pay. If PayPal will not confirm that you have seller protection and you lose this case it's probably best to concentrate on learning how to avoid issues with debt collectors.

gavinsmith1980 · 7 August 2019 at 7:54PM

Great thanks!

Guess I will leave my address as it is!

Ok thanks, any idea what happens if I refuse to pay Paypal anything? Obviously my intention would be to avoid getting to this stage but would like to know where I stand from a legal point of view as well? Should I sought legal advice if I get bombarded with debt letters etc?

I would like to avoid any issues with debt collectors/agencies and will argue my point and explain the situation as best I can but if they can’t get to me pay, do they just stop with it all? Or does it go further?

Thanks,

soolin · 7 August 2019 at 8:18PM

gavinsmith1980 wrote: »

Great thanks!

Guess I will leave my address as it is!

Ok thanks, any idea what happens if I refuse to pay Paypal anything? Obviously my intention would be to avoid getting to this stage but would like to know where I stand from a legal point of view as well? Should I sought legal advice if I get bombarded with debt letters etc?

I would like to avoid any issues with debt collectors/agencies and will argue my point and explain the situation as best I can but if they can’t get to me pay, do they just stop with it all? Or does it go further?

Thanks,

It's all outlined above. If you do lose the case and refuse to pay then PayPal will chase you, it is not unknown for them to peruse you for years rather than months. However, if they never take you to court then your credit rating can't be affected. For someone trying to avoid any problems at all with their credt markers you seem quite happy to Go to court. This is outside of my field and regulars on here can assist you further with what could happen if PayPal do take a court option, however I can only say again this is unlikely to happen.

Again as above, if it does get to it ask on the bankruptcy forum on here about the limited power debt collectors have, there is no need to seek expensive legal advice , they are allowed to persue you and you just need to ensure you know what they are allowed to do and what they can't. PayPal are not going to just give up after a week or so of you ignoring emails.

Personally I would concentrate on getting the case closed in your favour before it goes any further.

Paypal - credit rating and recovery?! Help desperately needed

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