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  • FIRST POST
    • Coz
    • By Coz 14th Jan 11, 7:30 PM
    • 75Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Coz
    LED light bulbs
    • #1
    • 14th Jan 11, 7:30 PM
    LED light bulbs 14th Jan 11 at 7:30 PM
    Does anyone use these in their home? What are they like? Are they any good? I want to try one, as the yellow energy saving bulbs make me feel sick. We got some Philips Eco ones from B&Q a few weeks ago which are fine, but they no longer sell them. But the LED ones are quite expensive if i find I don't like them. If I do try one, which one would I need to get if I need as much light as a 100 watt regular bulb gives out?
Page 3
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 7th Mar 11, 9:10 PM
    • 8,739 Posts
    • 5,481 Thanks
    buglawton
    Moore's law says electronics stuff gets cheaper and better very fast.
    • WestonDave
    • By WestonDave 8th Mar 11, 10:18 AM
    • 5,038 Posts
    • 8,521 Thanks
    WestonDave

    Could you please tell me how the LED light was able to provide a larger source of light 8ft straight down from the source than the halogen, (at this point it's not completely relevant but interestingly enough the Halogen showed signs of failing lighting after only 16 hours). The test also showed there was a huge amount of wastage outside of the 38 degree beam angle for the Halogen and literally none on the LED product.

    I will be interested for you to apply the theories of Lumens and Lux to this situation and hear your obvious expert opinion.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by LEDlighting
    Can you clarify the "wastage" point please? Most of us buy lights to illuminate a room - halogen spots are often chosen because of the tidy appearance of the fittings rather than because we want to spot illuminate something. Case in point being my kitchen - I have 7 spots in there - I don't have 7 specific workstations I want illuminated, I just want the room bright enough to work in. So if by wastage you mean light going outside the intended beam angle, that's not a problem, it is in fact beneficial because otherwise I'd need a lot more tightly directed lights to light my 13ft square kitchen.

    That said until its possible to be sure that all the dimensions of the bulb are compatible with existing fittings (e.g. my earlier point about the lip not fitting within spring clip fittings) no-one sensible is going to risk 30 on a bulb they can't be sure will fit.
    • Scoobs72
    • By Scoobs72 8th Mar 11, 12:30 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    Scoobs72
    Can you clarify the "wastage" point please? Most of us buy lights to illuminate a room - halogen spots are often chosen because of the tidy appearance of the fittings rather than because we want to spot illuminate something. Case in point being my kitchen - I have 7 spots in there - I don't have 7 specific workstations I want illuminated, I just want the room bright enough to work in. So if by wastage you mean light going outside the intended beam angle, that's not a problem, it is in fact beneficial because otherwise I'd need a lot more tightly directed lights to light my 13ft square kitchen.

    That said until its possible to be sure that all the dimensions of the bulb are compatible with existing fittings (e.g. my earlier point about the lip not fitting within spring clip fittings) no-one sensible is going to risk 30 on a bulb they can't be sure will fit.
    Originally posted by WestonDave
    Absolutely. The whole argument is nonsense because Halogen's don't 'waste' light. Sure you may have some halogens that don't hold their 38 degree beam angle well, so the light 'spills' over outside the 38 degree beam, but that doesn't 'waste' the light'.

    Fact is, all Mr LEDLighting is doing is importing a couple of brands of LED bulbs and selling them on his website. They are the exact same bulbs that you can buy at Lightplanet.co.uk and the GU10's come from Aeon Lighting, being their Asteria V5 series.

    It's not rocket science buying LED bulbs. Just look at the lumens and the beam angle. Until I see an LED with 600+ lumen to replace my 35 Watt Halogens I'm not buying any more. And you can guess where I won't be going to buy them.
  • alexlyne
    I normally add my 2c to led lighting discussions, as I have been dipping my toes in every couple of years.
    My best advice is suck one and see. Buy one for around or under a tenner (not from high street) and plug it in to see if it achieves what you want it to. I have 1w ones from a few years back that are terrible. I have 1.3w ones that are equally as bad. I bought one recently that cost 12 and I thought it was very good, and have now bought a pile off ebay that cost 6 each (GU10s and SESs: search for 'jdr 60led') that now adorn nearly our entire house.
    Will they last? who knows, I hope so.

    Oh, and the basis for my opinion? I did a test in a room between a 1.2w, a 3(ish)w and a 50w hal - taking photos of each. The 1.2w was terrible (as expected), but the halogen and 3w led were similar in light output intensity (halogen slightly better), the led had a much flatter and brighter light over a larger area (halogen had a bright spot in centre of beam), and the halogen was warmer light, not that the led was that cold. Now we have them in the lounge (a row of 4 bulbs), the room is definitely a bit darker than with halogens, but definitely suitable for purpose. The leds are excellent in our hallways as we have 3 lots of 3xspots in not much space. The kitchen (a 3x3x2.4m room with 3 spots in centre) is certainly OK, though I'd prefer it a little bit brighter.

    To repeat, don't buy from B&Q et al... the ones I saw quoted 8W or 10W equivalent!! I mean, what are they good for? Still, at least they do quote these values which are good as a guide.
  • LEDlighting
    I
    To repeat, don't buy from B&Q et al... the ones I saw quoted 8W or 10W equivalent!! I mean, what are they good for? Still, at least they do quote these values which are good as a guide.
    Originally posted by alexlyne
    This is excellent advice and i couldn't agree more.
  • samtheman1k
    Lidl bulbs seem to only have a lifespan of 25,000 hours
    Originally posted by LEDlighting
    Do you actually realise how long that equates to under normal usage?
  • LEDlighting
    Do you actually realise how long that equates to under normal usage?
    Originally posted by samtheman1k
    Yes of course, but it it is considerably shorter than the industry standard for a quality product. I personally wouldn't be interested in anything that states less than 35,000 hours.
  • samtheman1k
    I'm pretty sure that 10 years usage (at 8 hrs day) is pretty acceptable for most people and they won't complain too much!
    • sillygoose
    • By sillygoose 8th Mar 11, 5:45 PM
    • 4,547 Posts
    • 7,266 Thanks
    sillygoose
    25,000, 35,000, a million - either way the volt drop capacitors will have melted long before any of these times are up.
  • LEDlighting
    I'm pretty sure that 10 years usage (at 8 hrs day) is pretty acceptable for most people and they won't complain too much!
    Originally posted by samtheman1k
    You will always see the best LED products having a longer lifespan than the rest. This not only represents better value for a customer, but it also reflects build quality and the quality of the materials used.

    The reason the best LED products are more expensive than some you will see on ebay on in B&Q etc are that the best materials are used to make them. The chipsets are better and more reliable, the materials used for heat dissipation are better and more reliable and the better manufacturers have invested in the correct equipment with which to develop and test their products.
    • victor2
    • By victor2 8th Mar 11, 7:56 PM
    • 5,025 Posts
    • 3,383 Thanks
    victor2
    Like CFL bulbs, the price is bound to fall as they come into more widespread use. More than a year ago, I wanted some "candle" CFL bulbs but wasn't prepared the 2ish price being asked for them and decided I would wait until they dropped below 1. Got some for 20p in the end. Worth the wait!
    • Scoobs72
    • By Scoobs72 8th Mar 11, 8:23 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 43 Thanks
    Scoobs72
    Like CFL bulbs, the price is bound to fall as they come into more widespread use. More than a year ago, I wanted some "candle" CFL bulbs but wasn't prepared the 2ish price being asked for them and decided I would wait until they dropped below 1. Got some for 20p in the end. Worth the wait!
    Originally posted by victor2
    The best in class GU10 LED stuff is still 30 a pop, just as it was a couple of years ago. Price isn't dropping yet at the top end, you're just getting more powerful product for your money. I'm not convinced it will drop in the near-medium term either...designing and implementing the heatsinks/heat dissipation for the GU10 LEDs is expensive stuff.
  • LEDlighting
    The best in class GU10 LED stuff is still 30 a pop, just as it was a couple of years ago. Price isn't dropping yet at the top end, you're just getting more powerful product for your money. I'm not convinced it will drop in the near-medium term either...designing and implementing the heatsinks/heat dissipation for the GU10 LEDs is expensive stuff.
    Originally posted by Scoobs72
    You're quite right, but the chipsets is also a massive consideration in price. If you take Cree as an example, they are the most well known and still the best manufacturer there is. They have a large market share and are controlling the amount of products they release. They are keeping supply well below demand in order to keep prices high.

    There are other good chipset makes out there, but until they produce something to rival Cree or better it at a cheaper price, the top end LED products prices are not going to fall.
    • victor2
    • By victor2 9th Mar 11, 8:37 AM
    • 5,025 Posts
    • 3,383 Thanks
    victor2
    The best in class GU10 LED stuff is still 30 a pop, just as it was a couple of years ago. Price isn't dropping yet at the top end, you're just getting more powerful product for your money. I'm not convinced it will drop in the near-medium term either...designing and implementing the heatsinks/heat dissipation for the GU10 LEDs is expensive stuff.
    Originally posted by Scoobs72
    It's like all electronics, look how sophisticated cars are. Sure the top of the range gadgets will always carry a premium, but the technology drips through to the standard models without excessively inflating the price. Same with computers. You get so much more power for your money, but you can still pick up a budget one for a fraction of what you would have paid 10 years ago.
    20p may not get you the latest in light bulbs, but it does the job and saves you money. In the meantime, I can wait for the LED technolgy to become more affordable. Until I can see it saving me money (and not over its full life cycle) I won't be buying!
  • LEDlighting
    25,000, 35,000, a million - either way the volt drop capacitors will have melted long before any of these times are up.
    Originally posted by sillygoose
    Could you please go into more detail about your theories on voltage drop capacitors? I'm very interested to hear your comments?

    Thanks
  • LEDlighting
    Until I can see it saving me money (and not over its full life cycle) I won't be buying!
    Originally posted by victor2
    1 year pay back on an LED Bulb
    2 years pay back on the most expensive LED Spot

    Both have a life span of 20 years or more. After pay back you will be receiving 75-90% (depending on what product you have bought) reductions in you lighting bill, not to mention the huge energy and C02 savings.
    • victor2
    • By victor2 9th Mar 11, 9:50 AM
    • 5,025 Posts
    • 3,383 Thanks
    victor2
    1 year pay back on an LED Bulb
    2 years pay back on the most expensive LED Spot
    Originally posted by LEDlighting
    Compared to what?
    I have purchased standard CFL bulbs (8W) for 10p. If I leave one on 24/7, it will cost me about 7.08 in electricity per year. That's 7.18 a year if I have to replace the bulb (with electricity at 10p/kWh, which is a bit more than I currently pay). I don't leave my lights on all day every day either!
  • LEDlighting
    Compared to what?
    I have purchased standard CFL bulbs (8W) for 10p. If I leave one on 24/7, it will cost me about 7.08 in electricity per year. That's 7.18 a year if I have to replace the bulb (with electricity at 10p/kWh, which is a bit more than I currently pay). I don't leave my lights on all day every day either!
    Originally posted by victor2
    Ah yes, the figures i quoted are for incandescent or Halogen to LED's.

    CFL lamps are going to become quite a bit more expensive as they have rightly lost the government subsidies they enjoyed for far too long. What their prices will rise to is not yet known.

    It seems you got a very good deal on you CFL.
    • jamesperrett
    • By jamesperrett 9th Mar 11, 2:40 PM
    • 895 Posts
    • 529 Thanks
    jamesperrett
    Could you please go into more detail about your theories on voltage drop capacitors? I'm very interested to hear your comments?
    Originally posted by LEDlighting
    I guess he's talking about mass produced Chinese electrolytic capacitors, some of which seem to only have a lifespan of 3-5 years, whether used or not. Even good electrolytic capacitors will only have a lifetime of 1000 hours when working at high temperatures (typically 85 degrees C) unless the designer has splashed out on expensive high temperature types.

    James.
    • sillygoose
    • By sillygoose 9th Mar 11, 5:26 PM
    • 4,547 Posts
    • 7,266 Thanks
    sillygoose
    oh no! and I was just about to send him 150 for a load of LED lamps that are definitely not from a Chinese factory or ebay, he tests each one personally so that they are so bright they could burn your retina right out your head, like death ray lasers they are, and he will be waiting to refund my money in 20 years time if one fails. Give him a chance won't you?
    Last edited by sillygoose; 09-03-2011 at 5:28 PM.
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