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Article 13 GDPR (Data Protection Act 2018)

1910111315

Comments

  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    edited 27 July 2018 at 12:07AM
    I do mind you saying , because you are wrong and not turning off smart punctuation also makes your posts gobbledegook and hard to read for disabled people like me


    here is what the PDF says

    The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA)


    PoFA came into force in England and Wales on 1 October 2012 and made a number of changes to the law on parking on private land. It bans vehicle immobilisation (wheelclamping) without lawful authority, and provides private landholders with additional powers to pursue the registered keeper of a vehicle for unpaid parking or trespass charges providing certain conditions, in Schedule 4 of the Act, are met. This is known as !!!8220;keeper liability!!!8221;.


    The provisions in Schedule 4 are intended to apply only to private land in England and Wales. Public highways and parking places on public land provided or controlled by a local authority is excluded.
    Any land which already has statutory controls on the parking of vehicles (such as byelaws applying to airports, ports and some railway station car parks) is also excluded.



    Before PoFA a landholder would make a request to DVLA for details of the registered keeper but there was no need for a registered keeper either to say who was driving the vehicle or to accept liability.


    Schedule 4 of the PoFA addresses this situation. It does not provide a route to claim parking or trespass charges which were not lawfully due in the first place.


    One of the conditions for keeper liability is the parking or trespass company, using Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) systems, must issue the notice to keeper within 14 days of the alleged contravention.


    Companies that issue windscreen notices to drivers can only apply for keeper information, if the parking charge remains unpaid, after 28 days. Companies have a further 28 days to contact the keeper.


    If these timescale are not met, the keeper liability powers do not apply; however, the company can still pursue payment of the charge through means open to them prior to the introduction of POFA.


    The government made it a condition of bringing Schedule 4 into force that an independent appeal service is established for motorists. All tickets issued under POFA in England and Wales are covered by the relevant ATAs independent appeal service.
    if you think I am decoding the rubbish in your post above , you are mistaken

    I have highlighted their relevant paragraph for ANPR systems in red above

    the windscreen caveat is below it highlighted in blue

    any ICO complaint will fail as they will see what we are seeing and saying , plus people like myself and CM have been advising people on this for 6 years ro more , especially since POFA2012 came in

    learn the difference between KEEPER and DRIVER , like we have done , plus YES I have read that document on previous occasions, hence the cut and paste above, with the whole section included for clarity
  • wrsw
    wrsw Posts: 9 Forumite
    I get that, but again, you!!!8217;ve missed my point.
    The DVLA have published a document which in its most basic concept is a set of instructions for us for protecting our data; it tells us that they don!!!8217;t need consent, how they share it with 3rd parties, all that.
    What I want to know is, is there any other document published by the DVLA which contradicts it?
    If the DVLA tell me that they will release my data after 28 days, that says to me that I have 28 days to resolve something before my data is released. If that is the case, which we all know it isn!!!8217;t them the DVLA are misleading the public regarding the security of our sensitive data.
    If the DVLA document said 2 hours, I would have phoned straight away and sorted it, because I don!!!8217;t want scam artists knowing where I live. But the DVLA (and Excel) said 28 days, so I was surprised to receive a letter after 6.
    You follow?
    So, are there any other published documents which anyone is aware of which specify the terms on which our data is shared by the DVLA?
  • wrsw
    wrsw Posts: 9 Forumite
    The ANPR section is irrelevant, I had a screen notice. The blue paragraph applies to my scenario. That is the point I am making.
    I had a screen notice, the DVLA state that they will not release my details until 28 days later, but they did. So is that not a legitimate complaint? Or is there another DVLA published document which states that my details can be released immediately?
  • waamo
    waamo Posts: 10,298 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 27 July 2018 at 12:23AM
    wrsw wrote: »
    I get that, but again, you!!!8217;ve missed my point.
    The DVLA have published a document which in its most basic concept is a set of instructions for us for protecting our data; it tells us that they don!!!8217;t need consent, how they share it with 3rd parties, all that.
    What I want to know is, is there any other document published by the DVLA which contradicts it?
    If the DVLA tell me that they will release my data after 28 days, that says to me that I have 28 days to resolve something before my data is released. If that is the case, which we all know it isn!!!8217;t them the DVLA are misleading the public regarding the security of our sensitive data.
    If the DVLA document said 2 hours, I would have phoned straight away and sorted it, because I don!!!8217;t want scam artists knowing where I live. But the DVLA (and Excel) said 28 days, so I was surprised to receive a letter after 6.
    You follow?
    So, are there any other published documents which anyone is aware of which specify the terms on which our data is shared by the DVLA?

    Why not send an FOI request to the DVLA and ask them?
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    edited 27 July 2018 at 12:26AM
    ask the DVLA and the ICO , but I believe you have missed my point, even though I highlighted the relevant paragraphs , because you dont seem to know the difference between KEEPER and DRIVER

    if EXCEL issued a true Notice To Driver on the windshield , like they USED to do , then you would be correct as the blue paragraph would be true , job done , I have seen those notices when Excel/VCS were BPA members , so back then you would have been correct

    if they choose to use ANPR technology , and not issue an NTD on the windscreen , then the red paragraph becomes true, they get keeper details under reasonable cause in their KADOE contract , then they give that KEEPER the choice of either naming the driver or taking the pcn on themselves

    if the KEEPER names the driver , they issue a new NTD by post to the driver , then the cycle starts again, because the driver deals with it and POFA2012 does not apply and the keeper is no longer liable under POFA2012 (I have seen those as well, when they were BPA members)

    the excel/vcs myparkingcharge is not an official NTD , its a warning sc@m they dreamed up as a halfway house which fails the NTD tests according to the DVLA

    perhaps when the bill by Sir Greg Knight becomes law, we may see legal documents provided by the government to use in each scenario and then the warning notices may become defunct as they wont apply in the government CoP (hopefully)

    if we could get those myparkingcharge warnings banned , then it would be either an NTD on a windscreen or a postal notice to the keeper under reasonable cause asking them to disclose the driver, which some companies do follow correctly

    so if you had a screen notice (to the DRIVER) , one that doesnt neet the DVLA definition of an NTD (WHICH THEY DONT) , then the default position for the DVLA is that no official NTD was served and they default to the postal notice to the keeper as reasonable cause and ask for the name of the DRIVER


    if you can get the DVLA to admit that the notice you received was a notice to driver, an official notice to the driver by their own definition of what that notice should be and should contain, then you would be correct
  • wrsw
    wrsw Posts: 9 Forumite
    Waamo I probably will, I thought i!!!8217;d ask the !!!8216;experts!!!8217; here for some first hand experience to start with but i!!!8217;ve been distinctly underwhelmed....
  • wrsw
    wrsw Posts: 9 Forumite
    Redx I will stand by my point to them that the screen notice, despite being nonsense, does give sufficient information to resolve the matter, in that it directs the driver to the organisation operating the parking, as well as starting the 28 day clock. According the the DVLA document in its most basic interpretation, they shouldn!!!8217;t be releasing our data until 28 days have passed, either that or they shouldn!!!8217;t be making statements such as the one you highlighted in blue, in official publications.
    Either way, the principle remains the same, the PCCs are con artists and the DVLA is releasing information when it shouldn!!!8217;t be.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Photogenic
    edited 27 July 2018 at 12:40AM
    perhaps that is because all this was discussed on here a couple of years ago by the regulars when EXCEL/VCS dreamed this up and the dvla went along with it, we already are aware of this sc@m and I remember it being discussed and we all wondered how they get away with it

    I am sure those MP,s talking it out last week are fully aware of these issues and others

    the trick is convincing the DVLA and the ICO that what you received WAS an NTD, whereas the dvla say they are not because they do not contain various bits of information on them , whereas the postal NTK does (or should do)

    so I definitely get your point and strangely enough , I agree with you, plus your point used to be correct when they followed those rules as BPA members a few years ago

    its not us you have to convince, its the DVLA and the ICO that what you received was an official NTD and therefore that a breach occurred , get them to admit it and your point of view is correct. as I said , we have all talked about this some years ago when this weird notice started to appear on vehicle windscreens and it seems peculiar to EXCEL and VCS only (sister companies) - nobody else tries it AFAIK


    ps:- you need to turn off SMART PUNCTUATION on your apple device if you want the punctuation and emoji errors to disappear , otherwise those spurious characters will continue in your posts, making them hard to read
  • wrsw
    wrsw Posts: 9 Forumite
    I think the acid test is !!!8216;could the fee be paid with no further correspondence other than the screen notice?!!!8217;.
    If it could, and from what I saw, a person of limited intellect could use the information to clear the fee, then no further documentation is required until the 28 days have elapsed with the fee remaining unpaid.
    I!!!8217;m just going to keep arguing with them.
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,614 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    This thread forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5589636 may help you better understand the myparkingcharge fiasco.

    In particular, posts #11 and #13 on that thread.
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