Child abduction really?

2

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  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229 Forumite
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    t_obermory wrote: »
    If you're travelling with children without both parents being there you're supposed to take a letter with you from the other parent giving their permission for you to travel. The link below got loads of info.

    https://www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

    However I've been abroad several times with my children, without their dad, each time I've taken a letter and I've never once been asked for it.
    To be honest it's mostly a read herring. It's usual if you have different surnames, but otherwise...
  • LilElvis
    LilElvis Posts: 5,835 Forumite
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    t_obermory wrote: »
    If you're travelling with children without both parents being there you're supposed to take a letter with you from the other parent giving their permission for you to travel. The link below got loads of info.

    https://www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad

    However I've been abroad several times with my children, without their dad, each time I've taken a letter and I've never once been asked for it.
    Comms69 wrote: »
    To be honest it's mostly a read herring. It's usual if you have different surnames, but otherwise...

    We got held up at passport control at Hannover airport 2 months ago because a father was travelling with his two children, but without the mother. There were lots of frantic phonecalls being made by the father but they didn't make it onto the flight.

    In March we saw a teenage girl and her grandparents being taken to an immigration interview room in Johannesburg because they had a letter from the mother, but not the father, and also didn't have a copy of her birth certificate. Families have been denied boarding at Heathrow for flights to South Africa if they don't have birth certificates with them as the airline would be liable for returning them to the UK if they are refused entry to SA. It's all down to the SA government trying to crack down on child trafficking - though I doubt that many white children are being trafficked into their country.

    I didn't change my name when I got married so my daughter has a different surname to me. I was asked for proof that I was her parent and that I had her father's permission to leave the country both when I was leaving the UK and entering Spain, but no checks at all on our return.

    I certainly wouldn't assume that you could get away with it, especially as it could be very costly if they are diligent.
  • FBaby
    FBaby Posts: 18,367 Forumite
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    South Africa is a red herring and sadly fathers do indeed get a harder time. However I travelled abroad numerous time with my children and was only once asked about father's permission when they were still very young. I just said he didn't have parental responsibility and as they are born before 2003 they didn't questioned further.

    Depending on where you go and the age of the kids you might or might not be asked. The risk though is if goes to court and applies for a restricting order. He can do so very easily and cheaply. The question is whether he would go to that e tree?

    Are you taking the kids out of school and that's the reason why he won't agree?
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346 Forumite
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    TBH, this letter you're supposed to take is a farce.

    It is not certified, it doesn't need supporting evidence that it was actually written by the non-travelling parent and 9 times out of 10 it's never even asked for.

    Not once in 20+ years of travelling with my children with a different surname to me was I ever asked for such a thing. The nearest I ever got was a passport control officer asking my daughter where her dad was and my sons who have a non-English surname were asked some random questions, I'm sure just so the officer could hear whether or not they were English.
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  • Walrond21
    Walrond21 Posts: 2 Newbie
    Hi thanks for your reply. We do have a court order in place and he does have regular contact with the children.
    My issue is that he is very controlling and unreasonable and will do anything to make our lives harder.
    I have offered him extra contact as he will miss one of his mid week nights. This is usually not a problem when the other way round to benefit him but not when its for me or childrens benefit.
    I will look into the points you have made and see if that will help. I have fully informed him that it is only 7 nights but he is still being unreasonable
  • hollydays
    hollydays Posts: 19,812 Forumite
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    edited 13 October 2018 at 7:54AM
    And he has told you he will not give his permission because....?
  • Rubik
    Rubik Posts: 315 Forumite
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    If your Child Arrangements Order states the children live with you, you don't need his consent to take the children out of the jurisdiction for a 7 night holiday. The sticking point is that if the CAO states he is to have certain nights and you don't make the children available for that night, he could say you are in breach of the order. Usually deliberate breaches are established with a pattern rather than a single event. You've offered him an additional night which is fine.

    A half hour with a solicitor might be a good idea, if only for reassurance.
  • determined_new_ms
    determined_new_ms Posts: 7,825 Forumite
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    Rubik wrote: »
    If your Child Arrangements Order states the children live with you, you don't need his consent to take the children out of the jurisdiction for a 7 night holiday. The sticking point is that if the CAO states he is to have certain nights and you don't make the children available for that night, he could say you are in breach of the order. Usually deliberate breaches are established with a pattern rather than a single event. You've offered him an additional night which is fine.

    A half hour with a solicitor might be a good idea, if only for reassurance.

    We have a CAO for our dgd. When going on holiday I always get a letter of consent, even though it's not technically needed, just to be safe. I don't actually need her consent and a court wouldn't view missing one contact in these circumstances negative when balanced by the gains coming from a holiday.

    It's a real pain for you op, but given we have similar orders I think you can just go ahead with the holiday. Did you offer the extra contact through email? If not I would be minded to send one as evidence if he did decide to take this back to court. In fairness I do always offer an additional contact after a holiday if one was missed.

    Mediation may be a good way forward. You could look for private counsellors that offer it as an alternative, the official service is very expensive. It's a tight rope sharing parental responsibility with someone who you do not have a good relationship with. My relationship with my dd after the custody case was difficult but we've all worked towards dealing with our feelings in the interest of lo
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  • badmemory
    badmemory Posts: 7,720 Forumite
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    This is obviously very many years ago, but on my divorce with joint custody for my child I was told that I needed the father's permission to take him out of the country, this is on holiday not to live. As things are now a lot tighter than they were then I feel sure that with joint custody you do need permission - sole custody is quite different.


    Please don't think that you can just do it anyway, as that way will no doubt lead to trouble & give the ex more power than you want him to have.
  • HMB100407
    HMB100407 Posts: 3 Newbie
    First Anniversary
    I have a child arrangement order that was in place from 2016. My order states that the children live with me and have contact with their father on certain days (they don't see him anymore but that's another story!)
    Anyway I had this exact question as there is no way that he would do anything to make my life easier such as sign a letter to say I have permission to take them abroad so I contacted my solicitor whose reply was 'In respect of taking your children abroad, as you can see from the first page of the order, you can do so without permission for a period of less than 28 days. Ordinarily, I would say that it is still sensible to provide details of your intention to take the children abroad to anyone else with parental responsibility before doing so. However, you do not have to do so. If you take the children out of the country for more than 28 days. you would need permission or an order from the court'.
    I have travelled many times with them since the order was granted and I just take a copy of the order and proof of my link to the children. So far I have never been asked for any proof.
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