GOVT bottle & can deposit return scheme proposed

telemarks · 29 March 2018 at 2:10PM

I must admit I think this is a terrible idea for two reasons:

It will be the death of the kerbside collection
It totally fails to address the main problem, the amount of plastic not recycled

On kerbside collections:
In affluent areas, you can imaging gangs of anti-wombles each recycling evening searching the bins for 22p treasure and randomly strewing any "worthless" recycling over the pavements. After a few weeks of this, everyone will stop putting out recycling.
In less affluent areas, in place of one recycling lorry a week, there will be many more trips to the supermarket to queue up with the engine running at the recycling anti-vend machines in the windy corner of the carpark.
I imagine the police will also be pleased to have a new crime reports "someone stole my recycling".

On the real problem:
Metal tins and plastic bottles are already well covered with a kerb/pavementside recycling scheme that on the whole works.
However the real probelm is all the plastic that can't be recycled, stuff contaminaded with food, black trays that can't be seen on the belts of recycling facilities and mixed matierals such as cups, packaging with mixes of plastic and cardboard.

So instead of ruining what works already, I sugest the Govt. should be focusing on working with manufactuers to:

Promote alternatives and ruthlessly reduce the amount of plactic used - a "Plastic tax" on plastic manufactures might work well
Legislate against mixed use materials, and perhaps enforce colur coding of the types of plastic, so each type of plastic CAN be recycled easily

Pennywise · 29 March 2018 at 4:32PM

Mojisola wrote: »

No, you take your bottles back to the shops.

It's only what we all used to do with our glass bottles - I don't understand why people think it's such a difficult thing to do.

In the old days, there were shops on every street corner, so you'd never have to walk far to take your bottle back for your 10p deposit.

Nowadays, you'd have to carry a bulk load of bottles/cans to the nearest collection machine, which is more likely to be out of town retail park/supermarket so a car journey. I really can't see how smaller convenience stores such as Spar will have space for machines.

Martyn1981 · 29 March 2018 at 5:15PM

Pennywise wrote: »

In the old days, there were shops on every street corner, so you'd never have to walk far to take your bottle back for your 10p deposit.

Nowadays, you'd have to carry a bulk load of bottles/cans to the nearest collection machine, which is more likely to be out of town retail park/supermarket so a car journey. I really can't see how smaller convenience stores such as Spar will have space for machines.

As you say, the collection machine will most likely be at the supermarket, but the car journey won't be additional, it'll simply be your next trip to the supermarket to buy some more plastic bottles.

I saw this in operation in Sweden about 20yrs ago.

EricMears · 29 March 2018 at 5:21PM

Pennywise wrote: »

In the old days, there were shops on every street corner, so you'd never have to walk far to take your bottle back for your 10p deposit.

Nowadays, you'd have to carry a bulk load of bottles/cans to the nearest collection machine, which is more likely to be out of town retail park/supermarket so a car journey. I really can't see how smaller convenience stores such as Spar will have space for machines.

In no case will customers have to make a special journey to return empties; just carry a bagful with you when buying a new supply.
.
AIUI, every retailer selling drinks in single trip containers will have to accept empties and refund deposits.

Maybe supermarkets will choose to do this by means of a machine in their car park (but remember that Tesco used to do this though scrapped the machines a couple of years ago) but would be free to accept returns in any way they chose (including at individual checkouts). Corner shops will have to refund over their single counter and will need to make arrangements to pass the bottles & cans to their suppliers (no reason why it couldn't be as a return load on their delivery vehicles).

The_Green_Hornet · 30 March 2018 at 9:48AM

Bottle and can return scheme, which UK hopes to emulate, is not a pure win for environment

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/30/has-germany-hit-the-jackpot-of-recycling-the-jurys-still-out

!!!8220;If Britain copies the German system, I expect it will prove a great success in the fight against littering,!!!8221; says Benjamin Bongardt of Germany!!!8217;s Nature and Biodiversity Conservation Union.

!!!8220;But it will entrench a system that isn!!!8217;t very environmentally friendly in the first place. A tax on drinks packaging would have proved a lot more effective.!!!8221;

Anthorn · 30 March 2018 at 12:38PM

Pennywise wrote: »

In the old days, there were shops on every street corner, so you'd never have to walk far to take your bottle back for your 10p deposit.

Nowadays, you'd have to carry a bulk load of bottles/cans to the nearest collection machine, which is more likely to be out of town retail park/supermarket so a car journey. I really can't see how smaller convenience stores such as Spar will have space for machines.

Those of us who are old enough will remember the deposit on glass bottles mainly beer and juice (cordial) bottles. We might also remember the children who used to knock on doors asking for bottles who would then take them back and get the deposit. Possibly if children these days are as enterprising that might happen again. We might also see charities collecting them.

A major problem though is that not everyone goes to the supermarket to shop and instead get their shopping delivered. In that case returning the deposit laden bottles and cans would take a trip to the nearest collection point which is likely to be an out of town supermarket. In addition the deposit scheme could hit those who cannot go to the supermarket due to ill health and disability and get their shopping delivered.

Overall I think an obvious increase in the cost of shopping but we don't know at this stage how it is going to affect inflation.

Mojisola · 30 March 2018 at 12:45PM

Anthorn wrote: »

A major problem though is that not everyone goes to the supermarket to shop and instead get their shopping delivered. In that case returning the deposit laden bottles and cans would take a trip to the nearest collection point which is likely to be an out of town supermarket.

It's likely that bottles will be collected and credited to the shopper's account.

Most online supermarkets do it now with carrier bags.

The_Green_Hornet · 30 March 2018 at 3:28PM

Mojisola wrote: »

It's likely that bottles will be collected and credited to the shopper's account.

Most online supermarkets do it now with carrier bags.

Why is it likely?

ASDA, Tesco and Sainsbury's currently charge a 40p flat fee for delivering groceries in carrier bags, and they will certainly take them back, but they don't reimburse the shopper for doing so.

Mojisola · 30 March 2018 at 3:42PM

The_Green_Hornet wrote: »

Why is it likely?

ASDA, Tesco and Sainsbury's currently charge a 40p flat fee for delivering groceries in carrier bags, and they will certainly take them back, but they don't reimburse the shopper for doing so.

Consumers have a lot of power - if shoppers switched to the companies that decide to offer a refund on the bottles, others will follow.

Martyn1981 · 30 March 2018 at 3:45PM

The_Green_Hornet wrote: »

Why is it likely?

ASDA, Tesco and Sainsbury's currently charge a 40p flat fee for delivering groceries in carrier bags, and they will certainly take them back, but they don't reimburse the shopper for doing so.

I've got to say I'd have thought this was a no-brainer. When groceries are dropped off the delivery man/woman would accept and credit the returns.

It may be an assumption on my behalf, but it seems like a natural and reasonable one.

GOVT bottle & can deposit return scheme proposed

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