Inheritance Tax: Save £100,000s with simple advanced planning Article Discussion

Thanks Margaret,

Yes I suppose I should think about Power of Attorney too.
I might be struck down by a stroke at any time.
I think Enduring Powers of Attorney are in the process of becoming Lasting Powers of Attorney, though existing EPA's will still be effective.
My late mother was struck down by a stroke, fortunately not "massive", and I picked up a PA/EPA on a single form from a legal stationer, on my way to the hospital - which could have been cutting it a bit fine.
In the event I managed to muddle through just as an authorised signatory on her bank account, as using the PoA was difficult. "Saturday staff" have no idea what to do, when offered a PoA.

Harry

PS My in-laws have done what you are doing, but in our case my wife and brother in law are named as sort of "long stops" if both husband & wife become incapable.

The only other observation I would make is that I somewhat simplified my posting above, I did not want to write a book about it: Grandmother appointed absentee daughter, soon to die son and family solicitor as executors/trustees and "Auntie" very nearly got a telegram from the queen. You can imagine the effect of 70's inflation and the need for a solicitor to organise replacement of a dripping tap! To make it simple, what other investments there were rapidly ran down, when charged (say) 750 per year. When it started to look like extracting equity from the house to settle outstanding professional charges; I as one of 3 grandchildren/"remaindermen" managed to substitute myself and a family friend as trustees of the trust that lasted 29 years. I think the 6 great grand children agree that I did the right thing. My message to the younger generation is "honour thy father & mothers relatives" (yes and add at least one zero to any figure from 35 years ago to get present values.)
PPS
Here is my favourite executor story:

Do you remember the days when wills were still kept at Somerset house ?
Well one day I was climbing the couple of steps, ready to pull open the front door, with its polished brass handle; when it burst open towards me.
Hurtling through the door came a female looking backwards and speaking to two males. She was self evidently in charge and they could have been her brothers.
Just before she thudded into me she issued the immortal words: "Would you believe it; the crafty old b a s t a r d .............".

That's the whole point of EPAs. At that point they must be registered, then the appointed attorney acts. Otherwise the Public Guardianship Office has to appoint a receiver, and the process is time consuming, burdensome, expensive and intrusive.

Most EPAs are delayed in the same way that margaretclare and her hubby's are, but they can be effective immediately if need be.

Hi Rod,

I am not here to promote my own business. By referring to the website is allowing access to information (which the public quite clearly do seem to need). This forum is UK wide and since my firm is based in London, that rules me out of 95% of the audience of this site. By making reference to the price the firm charges serves to illustrate how overpriced others are. I at least have the integrity to declare my interest.

I also advise the forum readers to select a willwriter that is a member of the Insitute of Professional Willwriters to ensure they receive a service from someone that is properly qualified, regulated and insured and who operates a clear pricing structure. Members must undertake an initial period of study in order to pass the entrance exam and adhere to a strict code of conduct. Thereafter they are required to undertake a continuing programme of Continuing Professional Development and regular Criminal Records Bureau checks and to hold professional Indemnity Insurance of at least £2million. Perhaps you might consider taking the entrance exam yourself and joining?

Most people are amazed to learn that there is no legal restriction to prevent anyone at all setting up a willwriting practice in the UK. That's someone without any formal training or examinations whatsoever - perhaps even with a criminal record. These bad apples calling themselves willwriters, quite often bring the whole profession into disrepute. Remember National Legal Services? This was a firm that was eventually wound up by the Department of Trade and Industry on the grounds that 'the company was being operated disreputably and contrary to the public interest' The petition alleged also a 'deliberate lack of transparency ...and the involvement of a previously disqualified director.' Unfortunately that leaves 1000's of people unaware of the legality or the whereabouts of their wills.

Anyone can call themselves a willwriter, for the layman the difference is very hard to recognise. Any deficiencies are unlikely to become apparent during their lifetime, and it's their beneficiaries who will suffer the consequences with little prospect of redress or compensation. It's really about time the government regulated the profession so that the cowboys are eliminated once and for all. I make no apology for alerting the public to select a professional from the IPW for their own security and peace of mind.

Under present legislation and tax rules; it would seem sensible for many people to create a discretionary trust in their will (instead of trying to rule from the grave). The executors/trustees & the beneficiaries can then have up to two years to debate, in the view of circumstances then applying, how they want the estate to be devolved. Obviously it could get messy, but careful choice of executors/trustees plus briefing them before you pop your clogs, should take care of that.
Believe me an inflexible will, containing clauses that are self evidently out of date, can be even more of a headache. So expect a professional will to be an almost annual source of expenditure, as you have to keep checking that it will still do legally and tax wise, what you thought it would, when you signed it.

So here is my question:
If you, like the majority of the population don't bother to make a will, you get lumbered with a set of rules that the Government claims represents an average of the wills that those who leave wills make. (By definition this must mean a will that is about 20 years out of date! and there are some administrative problems too that will normally mean getting an (expensive) solicitor involved).
However can the family, having juggled the rules of who has to act as the administrators, then create a valid "Deed of Variation" (Sometimes called a deed of family arrangement)? This would in effect create a dead person's will after they had died, complete with the latest techniques for minimising taxation?
Has anyone had experience of sorting out an intestacy, in this way?

Harry.

PS For what it is worth, here are my thoughts on the ethics of localhero's postings:
There are several other people offering (for free) their advice on this forum, with the probable agenda that the rest of us can sign up for their services if we want to.
I see nothing wrong with a plumber telling us how to replace a tap washer for example and saying "I am a member of the certified institute of plumbing" (or what ever their trades union is called).
However I would prefer to see the declaration of interest in their published details or in the signature bar at the bottom of their message.
Invitations to check their private business web site should come as as result of inviting readers to learn more by sending them a Private Message rather than risk being awarded the order of the tin of SPAM, in the next reply.
PPS Hi localhero, The "Which?" guide points out that if you are the person in line for an eventual "reversionary interest" from the ending of an "interest in possession" trust, you can give away/pass on your interest tax free; perhaps thereby skipping a generation. It then goes on to discuss the the problem of getting half the value of the house out of IHT on the first death. One suggestion is the method you recommend: Leave it to a discretionary trust that then makes a loan to the remaining spouse, so he/she can buy back the dead spouses half, but will later die with a big debt. The second suggestion is to: "Set up an interest in possession trust in your will that does not meet all the conditions necessary for it to qualify as an IPDI trust - get professional advice on how to do this". (Where IPDI stands for Immediate Post Death Interest in possession trust). Localhero do you have the professionalism to explain to the rest of us what "Which?" is trying to suggest with its second option ?

PPPS Woops beaten by one minute by the previous posting - Perhaps Rod would like to have a go at explaining the second "Which?" option too?

Hi Localhero,

Firstly… Please accept my apologies for my original misquote. Originally I copied your whole post and then realised that the same message could be conveyed with far more clarity with a slight amendment; unfortunately I put in the wrong trade body. Ooops. I have corrected the error. And again, my apologies.

Thanks for setting out your qualifications. In my original post I was suggesting that you show these on your website (I could not see them anywhere) - I was not asking you to justify your credentials on the MSE site, but was suggesting a possible way of persuading visitors to your website that you were a true professional; I can see how, on reflection, you thought I was asking for them to be displayed here. Having seen your reply though I am even more sure you should show them on the your site; your qualifications must make you stand out from the crowd (of other will writers); from a marketing angle aren't these qualifications one of your unique selling points?


With regards to your comment …

'I'm not sure who told you you would 'walk the exam'. Nobody at the IPW would that's for sure.'

I can assure you my original statement was true. I called them to discuss my possible membership and spent a long time chatting to the person (sadly I do not recall their name, and in reality it is unimportant now). Were they talking about some entrance exam? Have standards of entry changed? Was their comment a marketing tactic to get me to join? I don't know; I just wanted to join, and that's what was said. Incidentally, I was not dumbing down the entrance exam, merely answering your statement ... 'Perhaps you might consider taking the entrance exam yourself and joining?' and showing why I decided to use a different trade body.


With regards to …

'And what aspect of my site is scaremongering exactly?'.

To give you an example … your page relating to protecting property from the traps of long term care. The opening paragraph includes the statement … 'In fact statistically women have a 1 in 4 chance of requiring long term care in old age.' The article then goes on to mention other facts, such as 70,000 homes are sold each year to fund long term care, and care costs around £30-40k p.a. must be paid for. As individual statements the facts quoted may be correct.

It's the combination of these facts that, I feel, is perhaps a little misleading. How many of the 25% of the female population who will go into long-term care will live past the 12th week? How many of those who remain alive will then be forced to sell their property? And of those who do have to sell their house what percentage actually stay in care long enough for their costs to eat into what was their former spouses share (and that you could have protected with a will.) rather than their own share? Your wording implies that 25% of all women will benefit from the trust protection included within their will.

The phrases you used on your website are quoted by many on-line will writers. It was from your earlier claims (that you were more professional than the average will writer) that I had expected to see a more balanced viewpoint - perhaps an explanation of the risks of including these trust clauses in a will. Hope that explains my comments, and is helpful to you.

With regard to the fees I quote on my site I would indeed like to quote a full range of fees. My problem is that I have 16 or so introducers scattered across three counties, some very local, some not. Further, a few introducers load my fees when quoting prices to their clients. The fee matrix becomes so complex that no one would understand it. I have tried a number of options; presently I show indication prices for people living locally. But, thanks for your feedback.

I agree with you that many people are unaware of the credentials of many will writers. Hopefully, the MSE site help increase public awareness. I also enjoy the challenge of finding solutions for the posts, and being reprimanded if I get it wrong … and so with that in mind I'll now attempt to answer Harryhounds question.


Regards,

Rod