Viagogo - Can I Stop Them Charging Me For Cancelling a Sale?

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  • shaun_from_Africa
    shaun_from_Africa Posts: 12,858
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    As for the 2nd, if you want to prove that swiss statute allows for a retailer to dictate not just what format it comes in but from which identifier (email address, postal address, phone number etc), then you should do the leg work for that - not me.
    Why should I have to do any "leg work"?
    You are the one who clearly stated that what Viagogo was asking for was an unfair term (thus an illegal term) and unless you can show showing to back this claim up, it can only be your opinion.

    I get that you want to help OP, but that doesn't mean the rest of us want to beat him mercilessly across the head or that he should be perfect
    I haven't seen anyone post anything that shows that they wish to "beat him mercilessly across the head or that he should be perfect", simply people posting differing opinions on how the law may look at the actions of Viagogo.

    The CRA allows a consumer in the UK up to 6 years to chase a retailer for breach of contract where as in most other EU countries they only have up to 2 years.
    This means that EU directives can be implemented differently in different countries so don't you think it a possibility that something which might be classed as an unfair term in the UK may be totally acceptable in Switzerland?
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
    ...

    The CRA allows a consumer in the UK up to 6 years to chase a retailer for breach of contract where as in most other EU countries they only have up to 2 years.
    This means that EU directives can be implemented differently in different countries so don't you think it a possibility that something which might be classed as an unfair term in the UK may be totally acceptable in Switzerland?

    Consumer Rights Act 2015? No, it's the Limitation Act 1980.

    It's not only 2 years in "most other EU countries". Here's a source.
    https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-518-8770?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Defaul%20%20t)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1

    Ireland 6 years, Italy 10 years, Spain 5 years ....

    is there an EU directive on limitation periods? I'm not aware of one. And Switzerland is not a member of the EU.
  • antrobus
    antrobus Posts: 17,386 Forumite
    ...
    Switzerland is not part of the EU etc but they are part of the single market and as such, have to adopt EU laws (at least as far as they pertain to the single market) - although they don't get any input into what those laws are.

    Switzerland isn't a member of the EEA (single market) either. It has a series of bilateral agreements with the EU that give it limited access to the single market. Neither is it obliged to adopt EU laws.

    Switzerland voluntarily adapts to EU laws from time to time
    https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-switzerland-eu-laws/

    I'm not sure why this all matters. But if it does, you all might as well get it right.:)
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,427
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    antrobus wrote: »
    is there an EU directive on limitation periods? I'm not aware of one.
    In this context, yes - DIRECTIVE 1999/44/EC.

    Article 5 para (1) refers:
    1. The seller shall be held liable under Article 3 where the
    lack of conformity becomes apparent within two years as from
    delivery of the goods. If, under national legislation, the rights
    laid down in Article 3(2) are subject to a limitation period, that
    period shall not expire within a period of two years from the
    time of delivery.
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863
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    antrobus wrote: »
    Switzerland isn't a member of the EEA (single market) either. It has a series of bilateral agreements with the EU that give it limited access to the single market. Neither is it obliged to adopt EU laws.

    Switzerland voluntarily adapts to EU laws from time to time
    https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-switzerland-eu-laws/

    I'm not sure why this all matters. But if it does, you all might as well get it right.:)

    I did get it right. If you read your own linked page it says that Switzerland accepts EU law in return for market access.

    https://www.eda.admin.ch/missions/mission-eu-brussels/en/home/key-issues/adoption-eu-laws.html
    The agreements governing market access are as a rule based on existing EU law in which Switzerland has undertaken to enact equivalent provisions or to adopt existing EU law.

    Also, theres article 120 of the Federal Act of Private International Law (swiss law) which states that contracts with consumers will be governed by the rule of law of their habitual residence if:
    1. Its accepted in that state (not applicable here)
    2. If the provider advertises or makes an offer in that state (viagogo do advertise here)
    3. The provider made the consumer go abroad to complete the contract (again, not applicable here).
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863
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    JReacher1 wrote: »
    I use viagogo all the time to sell tickets. You provide a name and email address, nothing more.

    If you contacted them with the wrong email address it would be impossible to find your listing as names are not unique, only email addresses are.

    Unfortunately OP you have no legal recourse here and must take the blame. Is there any way you can reverse the cancellation of your tickets and sell them to the viagogo buyer?

    Now thats not true - even just for signing up, they ask for a phone number.

    When you go through to sell the tickets, you'll then be asked ticket details (face value, seat/row number), address, potentially paypal or bank details and also for a credit/debit card (and it must be a valid one because they check).
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • Fosterdog
    Fosterdog Posts: 4,948
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    You've said that a few times now but as I said, we don't know which email OP used so that's another thing we're speculating on.

    Also, if you're not looking to beat him for not being perfect, then why is the only argument being made against him the fact he had more than 1 account? People have a habit of doing that on this board. They don't give a stuff what the law actually says or what the OP's consumer rights are - they just want to beat the OP over the head with any failure whether real or imagined.

    When I put forth a possible version of events in my earlier post and asked if you'd feel the same if that were the circumstances, whats your reply to that?

    Have you actually read the OP? He literally tells us that he had the tickets for sale under an account using his gmail account but was trying to log in and contact them through his account using the googlemail account instead, he somehow also has an account under the googlemail email so they could find no record of it from that.

    There is no imagined failure here on OPs behalf, he has made mistake after mistake with this entire transaction and that is perfectly clear from the post where he tells us that.

    As for your other possible scenarios, it would depend on exactly what was discussed and whether or not OP could pass any relevant security checks to prove he was the account holder.

    I don't like sites like Viagogo, at all, I refuse to use them and buy into the ticket tout world in any way, I'd be glad if they went out of business, however in this case I'm really struggling to see what they have done wrong, it really does seem to be all of OPs doing.
  • JReacher1
    JReacher1 Posts: 4,652
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    Now thats not true - even just for signing up, they ask for a phone number.

    When you go through to sell the tickets, you'll then be asked ticket details (face value, seat/row number), address, potentially paypal or bank details and also for a credit/debit card (and it must be a valid one because they check).

    My apologies that is not true at all. It is disingenuous to make up facts to try and support your argument.

    You do not need to provide a phone number to register an account on Viagogo. Please register for an account and you will then see that you are mistaken.

    In addition the address you enter is a pick up address for the tickets not an account address. If his address is an office (like mine is) then it can potentially be linked to many accounts.

    Bank details are held securely so it would not be possible for a customer services operator to search for an account tied to a specific bank account number as they do not have access to that data, while the PayPal account will be the same email address as the registered email address

    The only unique data on a viagogo account is email address so this must be provided correctly to find an account.
  • NeilCr
    NeilCr Posts: 4,430
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    edited 14 May 2018 at 6:34AM
    I've just signed up out of interest.

    It wouldn't let me register without a phone number. Apart from that (like most other sites) it wanted my name, email address and a password.

    And I had to verify that email address.

    In your settings you can have a secondary phone number but not a secondary email address.
  • JReacher1
    JReacher1 Posts: 4,652
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    NeilCr wrote: »
    I've just signed up out of interest.

    It wouldn't let me register without a phone number. Apart from that (like most other sites) it wanted my name, email address and a password.

    And I had to verify that email address.

    In your settings you can have a secondary phone number but not a secondary email address.

    Register via the Facebook sign up link.
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