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  • FIRST POST
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 11th Jan 18, 4:03 PM
    • 158Posts
    • 32Thanks
    inglorius
    Work colleague block booking desired holiday dates
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 4:03 PM
    Work colleague block booking desired holiday dates 11th Jan 18 at 4:03 PM
    My current çompany have a local rule that no 2 managers can be on leave at the save time, my co manager has been with the business about 6 months and we are asked to book holidays around each other.

    The annual holiday planner went up in the office this week, during a casual conversation with my colleague today they mentioned that they had booked off all of the bank holiday weeks from Easter though to August for the year. I casually asked them where are they going for these dates and they said that they hadn't anything arranged but would look at this in the future. I then replied that they therefore effectively had reserved all of the prime holiday dates off for the year without having any plans for any of these dates and found this extremely selfish.

    I subsequently complained to my line managers boss about this behaviour and the fact that they had condoned it but they did not offer any support to resolve this situation. I was looking for thoughts please, I have no issue with the company holiday policy but the distinction between booking a holiday and block reserving all of the years prime holiday dates.
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    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 12th Jan 18, 7:20 AM
    • 20,161 Posts
    • 33,392 Thanks
    Spendless
    Agreed but their thinking is that they only have 20 floating days which is 4 weeks so if they tack holidays at the end of a Bank Holiday then they will save a day every week to use at another time and still get a full weeks holiday each time.
    Originally posted by inglorius
    Have they used the AL for full weeks in the Bank hols? If they have then they'll have used all 20 days using 8 days Easter and 12 days for the 2 x May and the 1 x Aug ban hols? If so the rest of the year is open for you to take.

    Also, what's to stop you taking days the week before so you get an extra long week/weekend for the price of less?

    Everywhere I've ever worked has had a 'first come, first served policy' for booking AL.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 12th Jan 18, 7:50 AM
    • 890 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    I would book the next three years off and see how they like it!


    At my work we share and have a casual chat.




    Is sharing a difficult concept.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 12-01-2018 at 7:55 AM.
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 12th Jan 18, 11:44 AM
    • 1,815 Posts
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    NeilCr
    I would book the next three years off and see how they like it!


    At my work we share and have a casual chat.




    Is sharing a difficult concept.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    I still think the OP should try sorting this out amicably first without taking nuclear options.

    These two have to work together and if they go tit for tat it will only get worse As a manager I!!!8217;d be highly unimpressed if two of my managers couldn!!!8217;t work this out between them.

    And, yes, I agree that it was not good the way the other person booked their leave. But, we still don!!!8217;t know, as far as I can see what the leave policy is. The OP has been asked a number of times but is yet to reply
    Last edited by NeilCr; 12-01-2018 at 11:56 AM.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 12th Jan 18, 12:39 PM
    • 6,570 Posts
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    TBagpuss
    As others have said, the bottom line is that unless what they have done is contrary to your employer's policies about requesting leave, they have done nothing wrong and you having a go at them is likely to create more problems or you than for them.

    Moving forward, you can consider:

    - suggesting to management that the policy for how leave is approved is amended - perhaps to give staff who don't have 'preferred dates' one year, first refusal the following year.
    The downside of this is that is would create more work for managers so unless this is a widespread problem ad other staff members have expressed dissatisfaction with the current system, it is unlikely to change. Fr that reason, I'd only suggest to try it if you know that other members of staff would also like the current policy to change and (ideally) if thy are willing to say so, so it is a small group of you making the suggestion rather than just one person.

    - plan ahead. If it is important to you to have days off around bank holidays then request the days you would like, when the holiday calendar goes 'live'. You don't have to have concrete plans ahead of time as to how to use the time, and can (assuming that your firm's policy allows it) cancel a day off if you decide you don't need it after all.

    - talk to your colleague. It sounds as though you may have already burned your bridged on this one, if you've called her selfish etc. However, you could try apologising to her for those comments, letting her know that you understand why she has booked those days and asking that next year, she liaises with you so that you can each have some of those 'desirable' days and see what she says. However, since most people are not going to appreciate being called selfish I would suggest that you think carefully about how to approach it, and also think about what your relationship with her in general is like. If you get on well, and you have (or can build) a good relationship with her where she sees you as a helpful, supportive co-worker, then she is much more likely to be open to considering you when it comes to booking holidays, than if her perception of you is of someone who is aggressive or critical of her.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Jan 18, 1:35 PM
    • 32,192 Posts
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    getmore4less
    Given there are no BH between Easter and Aug that means they have booked potentially 2 weeks at Easter and Aug bank holiday week.

    Leaves a very big gap between those dates.
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 12th Jan 18, 1:38 PM
    • 2,255 Posts
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    k3lvc
    Given there are no BH between Easter and Aug that means they have booked potentially 2 weeks at Easter and Aug bank holiday week.

    Leaves a very big gap between those dates.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    What about the 2 in May ?
    • Nothanks
    • By Nothanks 12th Jan 18, 2:40 PM
    • 123 Posts
    • 135 Thanks
    Nothanks
    It's amazing that someone in a managerial position can't sort something like this out by themself. If you don't have any plans then just make plans for a different week and move on with your life.

    I'd be laughed at if I went to my senior management with a trivial issue like this.
    Originally posted by Diamandis
    This.

    /thread.
    Anything I post is solely MY OPINION. It never constitutes legal, financial or collective bargaining advice. I may tell you based on information given how I might approach an employment dispute case, but you should always seek advice from your own Union representative. If you don't have one, get one!
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 12th Jan 18, 6:41 PM
    • 2,255 Posts
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    k3lvc
    It's amazing that someone in a managerial position can't sort something like this out by themself. If you don't have any plans then just make plans for a different week and move on with your life.

    I'd be laughed at if I went to my senior management with a trivial issue like this.
    Originally posted by Diamandis
    There's 'Managerial' and 'managerial' and I'm suspecting from previous posts that the OP is in the lower of these. Given the historical posts I'd be putting up/shutting up or looking for a(nother) new job
    • Smidster
    • By Smidster 12th Jan 18, 7:42 PM
    • 512 Posts
    • 742 Thanks
    Smidster
    I would as yourself is this an argument that you really want to get into.

    If you have a particular reason why you really want a particular date then have a word to see if you are able to come to a compromise but otherwise I would let it go and make a mental note to be first next year.
    • DevilsAdvocate1
    • By DevilsAdvocate1 12th Jan 18, 7:58 PM
    • 1,589 Posts
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    DevilsAdvocate1
    I'm afraid you are giving them too much credit, I did discuss this with them and they couldn't see how selfish their actions were. They do not have children the motivator being that they complained they only get statutory holidays which isn't enough so to stretch them they take all bank holiday weeks off so use 4 days leave to get a weeks holiday.
    Originally posted by inglorius
    In my first job I only got 12 days leave plus all the bank holidays. We had to take 4 or 5 of these days at Christmas, so it meant I could never get a 2 week holiday in the summer. So I used to do something similar where I took the corresponding Friday or Monday off so that I effectively worked 3 days a week during April and May. No one ever complained. Didn't realise I was being selfish, was just trying to get a decent break. Perhaps its the same for your colleague?
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 12th Jan 18, 11:21 PM
    • 446 Posts
    • 476 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    Agreed I'm more bothered with my colleagues as long as I'm alright attitude then the booking system itself.
    Originally posted by inglorius
    In my previous job the managers used to swan in and out of the office, take extended breaks and rub it in the noses of the people under them.

    Not saying that you are that type, but I learnt two things in that job:

    1. Many people adopt the "I'm alright attitude" and if you can't negotiate with them, join them (to an extent).

    2. Dog eat dog world.

    You've either got to accept that you lost here (play the game better next time), or realise that it isn't a game you want to play and rise above it/let other people play their game.
    • Mulder00
    • By Mulder00 13th Jan 18, 2:06 AM
    • 488 Posts
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    Mulder00
    I know what I'll be doing next year when the holiday planner goes up in January
    Originally posted by inglorius
    You seem more concerned around wanting to take leave just to spite your colleague, rather than plan holidays for when you want to take them.

    I suspect that if your colleague booked leave in February, you would probably find a reason to be unhappy about that too.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 13th Jan 18, 8:51 AM
    • 890 Posts
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    scd3scd4
    I still think the OP should try sorting this out amicably first without taking nuclear options.

    These two have to work together and if they go tit for tat it will only get worse As a manager I’d be highly unimpressed if two of my managers couldn’t work this out between them.

    And, yes, I agree that it was not good the way the other person booked their leave. But, we still don’t know, as far as I can see what the leave policy is. The OP has been asked a number of times but is yet to reply
    Originally posted by NeilCr

    Of course you do that first. Goes without saying. I work in a team of 5 never needed much input from any managers. In fact we would tell them they are not welcome. But over the years we have the odd selfish person. We reciprocate the selfish as an object lesson and it always works.

    Even first come first served is a weak management system. As you can get one person book all the time of first around bank holidays or school.
    Last edited by scd3scd4; 13-01-2018 at 3:25 PM.
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 13th Jan 18, 10:38 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    inglorius
    You seem more concerned around wanting to take leave just to spite your colleague, rather than plan holidays for when you want to take them.

    I suspect that if your colleague booked leave in February, you would probably find a reason to be unhappy about that too.
    Originally posted by Mulder00
    You've not obviously read or understood my post to form your own conclusion on this. Why would I be bothered about February, its the prime bank holiday weeks that I originally posted about
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 13th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    inglorius
    In my previous job the managers used to swan in and out of the office, take extended breaks and rub it in the noses of the people under them.

    Not saying that you are that type, but I learnt two things in that job:

    1. Many people adopt the "I'm alright attitude" and if you can't negotiate with them, join them (to an extent).

    2. Dog eat dog world.

    You've either got to accept that you lost here (play the game better next time), or realise that it isn't a game you want to play and rise above it/let other people play their game.
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    Agreed, I've moved on now at least I have an understanding now of my colleagues self motivated attitude which I will take as a learning for future use. Thanks for the balanced reply.
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 13th Jan 18, 10:43 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    inglorius

    Even first come first served is a weak management system. As you can get one person to book all the time of first around bank holidays or school.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Agreed, as in the case in question here. Certain people will always exploit the system where they are allowed to their own advantage.
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 13th Jan 18, 10:45 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    inglorius
    I would as yourself is this an argument that you really want to get into.

    If you have a particular reason why you really want a particular date then have a word to see if you are able to come to a compromise but otherwise I would let it go and make a mental note to be first next year.
    Originally posted by Smidster
    Agreed, have moved on now but made a mental reminder of how my peer behaves in situations like this for future reference. Thanks for the sensible advice.
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 13th Jan 18, 10:46 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    inglorius
    I would book the next three years off and see how they like it!


    At my work we share and have a casual chat.




    Is sharing a difficult concept.
    Originally posted by scd3scd4
    Sharing is a difficult concept for some people yes I agree, especially in this instance.
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 13th Jan 18, 11:09 AM
    • 1,199 Posts
    • 2,499 Thanks
    nicechap
    You seem more concerned around wanting to take leave just to spite your colleague, rather than plan holidays for when you want to take them.

    I suspect that if your colleague booked leave in February, you would probably find a reason to be unhappy about that too.
    Originally posted by Mulder00
    Based on their latest replies I think your assessment is correct.
    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
    • Mulder00
    • By Mulder00 13th Jan 18, 11:58 AM
    • 488 Posts
    • 431 Thanks
    Mulder00
    You've not obviously read or understood my post to form your own conclusion on this. Why would I be bothered about February, its the prime bank holiday weeks that I originally posted about
    Originally posted by inglorius
    I read it all and understood it all. You are upset that your colleague went and booked all of their leave without having any holidays planned in that time. You do not have any holidays planned in that time either, so want to do the same thing to them next year.

    From everything you have said, it seems like you have had a brief discussion about it with them, but with no viable option or plan (e.g. wanting to take any specific time off for any specific reason), but you were quick to complain pretty high up in management about it.

    Plan your holidays for the year and then see where the overlaps are, and then have the discussion with your colleague if there are any overlaps. You might find that there are no overlaps.

    I was using February as an example that you are more upset about the principle, rather than having any specific need or requirement to book off what you seem to think are "prime" dates (they are not in my mind because holidays are super expensive at those times).
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