Vanguard Life Strategy

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  • Zerforax
    Zerforax Posts: 353 Forumite
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    Is it better to drip feed or to invest as a lump sum (the amount would be 5,760).

    Who is best to invest with if it's a lump sum? (Already got the answer of charles-stanley direct if it's drip fed).
  • atypical
    atypical Posts: 1,342 Forumite
    Zerforax wrote: »
    Is it better to drip feed or to invest as a lump sum (the amount would be 5,760).
    This study by Vanguard found lump sum investing gave higher returns 2/3 of the time vs drip feeding. Drip feeding reduces your risk though, so the decision will depend on your risk tolerance.
    Zerforax wrote: »
    Who is best to invest with if it's a lump sum? (Already got the answer of charles-stanley direct if it's drip fed).
    Same answer if it's a lump sum up to £9,600. After that, Hargreaves is cheaper.
  • Zerforax
    Zerforax Posts: 353 Forumite
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    atypical wrote: »
    by Vanguard found lump sum investing gave higher returns 2/3 of the time vs drip feeding. Drip feeding reduces your risk though, so the decision will depend on your risk tolerance.


    Same answer if it's a lump sum up to £9,600. After that, Hargreaves is cheaper.

    Much obliged. Now to decide if I want to chose 80/20 or 100 equity fund and if accumulation or income..
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
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    If you're only investing in one fund within the ISA there's no point getting the income version. What would you do with the cash dividends of £60-100 after a year other than reinvest back into the fund?

    You wouldn't want to take them out of the ISA because the goal is to build up a large pile of assets inside the tax-protected wrapper, and extracting cash from it a couple of times a year and spending it or saving it outside the ISA is not helpful. Income versions are only useful if you need to draw an income to fund your lifestyle, or if you're looking to take cash out of one fund to put into another to try to move the proportions of what you have in each fund into your preferred target allocation.
  • JohnRo
    JohnRo Posts: 2,887 Forumite
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    They do provide an element of flexibility for market timing though to achieve an average unit cost reduction. Especially given the relatively low yield on offer and the volatile nature of index trackers.

    Whether the amount paid out is enough to qualify for an ad hoc purchase of said fund with your provider might be a stumbling block though.
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
  • Carpi09
    Carpi09 Posts: 300 Forumite
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    Another £1150 added to VLS 80. Maxed out ISA Allowance now.

    Question is, do i open another account outside the tax bracket or carry on putting it into a savings acount...
    :j

    Planning for my future early

    :T Thank you to the members of the MSE Forum :T
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
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    Congrats on usng up your allowance.

    Whether or not you have any ISA allowance left doesn't really change the decision of whether you should save cash vs make investments in any given month. You'll get another 11k of new ISA wrapper next April anyway and whether you choose cash or investments now you can move it into the ISA then if you want (though if you're only a basic rate taxpayer you might not really need to wrap your LS investment).

    The cash vs investment decision is simply driven by how long into the future it's likely to be before you need the money. If you could live without it until age 55 you could stick it in a pension wrapper and benefit from a tax break (relatively more useful for a high rate taxpayer). If you want to buy a house with it in 10 years you could invest it outside a wrapper. If you want to use it with your other stashed cash to buy a house or car in 5 years you should save it outside a wrapper.

    Beyond those obvious points you might have a feeling on market timing, and plan to invest it but hold back for a market crash. The problem with doing that is you might miss out on the markets going up instead.

    Good luck making your decision - having a chunk of money coming in that you don't really need at the moment is a nice place to be!
  • Glen_Clark
    Glen_Clark Posts: 4,397 Forumite
    bowlhead99 wrote: »
    So basically the Vanguard Lifestrategy bond exposure doesn't do it for me.
    OK.
    But if you want 100% equity why the Vanguard Lifestrategy?
    If you already have exposure to UK shares, you could have the Vanguard ex UK shares fund for 10% lower charges.
    “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” --Upton Sinclair
  • bowlhead99
    bowlhead99 Posts: 12,295 Forumite
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    But if you want 100% equity why the Vanguard Lifestrategy?
    If you already have exposure to UK shares, you could have the Vanguard ex UK shares fund for 10% lower charges.
    Well, if you already have enough UK exposure and not enough ex-UK exposure, such that you don't want 35% of your lifestrategy fund to be in the UK all-share, then sure, don't buy a lifestrategy fund. That's a decision for every investor to make for themselves.

    The fee argument is a bit of a red herring really. Saving 10% always sounds like a good thing to be doing. In reality though if you are looking at funds with 1.5% charges or 0.33% charges or 0.30% charges, the latter two funds are 'about the same' in that we're talking 15 pounds a year on 50,000 pounds invested.

    Sure, it's a bottle of wine for free every year but the gross returns will differ by more than that based on the actual mix of shares held; the Vanguard LS 100 for example at end of May has slightly more relative weighting to US over Japan than the developed ex-UK has. Only by a bit, but it could be a factor. Also the LS100 has an emerging markets component while "developed ex-UK" does not, as the clue is in the name, and that will certainly affect returns.

    I think I generally prefer the concept of having a high level view of investing in a portfolio of regional funds rebalanced against each other periodically, than an index where every single share floats free against every other.

    Example say the world is just US and Japan and I am invested in a US index and a Jap index, at £500:£100. Within the US index, Apple is £12. Say Apple goes up 50% in price and everything else stays the same, my split has changed to £506:£100. I am now more 'exposed' to Apple versus Sony. A passive investor is fine with that as they believe you should have more in the bigger companies. But I am also now more 'exposed' to the US versus Japan - which might still be OK for a true passive investor as the US now has a bigger market capitalisation, but many would want to go back to their 5:1 ratio and make it £505:£101. If you were in a 'whole world' index, you couldn't do that.

    Of course when we are talking about global businesses like Apple in the US or Sony in Japan or Samsung in South Korea, there is less 'home country risk' than smaller businesse and they have global multicurrency revenue streams - but there are still some politics and tax and fx rates and interest rates and other relevant factors which tie to their domicile of choice, so thinking in major global regions makes sense. It can help you understand where your money is at work, to consider against other funds in your portfolio you might have outside the lifestrategy or other large-cap tracker of choice, without going down to individual country or company level (of course, you can do the country-level analysis if you want, as "Europe" contains as wide variations as "Pacific Ex-Japan", and some sector analysis is useful too).

    Now, I'm not saying the vanguard lifestrategy funds are necessarily rebalancing between all the regional investee funds all the time, but the fact that the lifestrategy's US/Jap ratio differs slightly from the global-ex UK's US/Jap ratio, implies they are not just allowing it all to free float. Their prospectus notes:
    Whilst the Fund will seek broadly to maintain the equity notional exposure at the stated level, theidentity and proportion of the particular indices, securities and/or markets, etc. to which the Fund is exposed will be at the discretion of the Investment Adviser taking into account aspects of those schemes considered to be relevant to maintain exposure to a diversifiednotional portfolio. The stated levels of exposure may from time to time fluctuate in response to fluctuations in the market capitalisations or market values of the indices tracked by the Associated Schemes in which the Fund is invested
    So anyway the point of that long ramble was to say the exposure through lifestrategy is different to just a single index tracker, not least because it contains a chunk of UK and emerging markets, but also because how it's built, making an expense ratio difference of 0.03% an irrelevance.
  • ruperts
    ruperts Posts: 3,673 Forumite
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    Hi all

    Apologies if this has been discussed before (it almost certainly has), this thread has grown rather large but my question pobably doesn't warrant another thread.

    What are peoples thoughts around 'tilting' a portfolio which uses Lifestrategy as a base.

    I'm thinking of putting 60% into Lifestrategy 80% equity, then 10% into developed Europe, emerging markets, value and smaller companies.

    Extra developed Europe is to balance out what i perceive to be quite a heavy UK/US bias in the lifestrategy funds. I feel instinctively that further geographic diversity is a cheap way to reduce risk, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise, and in any case just assigning 10% to this feels a little too 'unmathematic'.

    Extra emerging markets is again for similar reasons, to provide geographic diversity on top of the 5% already in the fund, but also to capture the EM premium. I'm happy to go with managed funds here, probably 5% each in Aberdeen and First State.

    Value - how does one go about capturing this premium cheaply? I've read the Monevator article on the subject but I'm still none the wiser. What are people's thoughts on using a fund such as Invesco High Income for this?

    And lastly smaller companies, monevator suggest a particular relatively cheap Investmemnt Trust for this (I can't remember which one) but its performance is a long way behind slightly more expensive funds like old mutual. Away from active management would a FTSE 250 tracker capture this premium?

    Your thoughts on any or all of the points above very much appreciated.
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