Surely boss can't do this?

My boss is already paying me less than he should, denied me holiday pay, forced me to cancel holiday, insulting me personally in an effort to get me to leave.


I had hip operation Thursday and out of hospital as of yesterday, today I'm feeling fragile and I am on my own and therefore not upto his bullying especially in my own home and has sent email to say he ll be round later to discuss December pay.

He says he ll pay me, the six days I worked in December and no more. He owes me for 3 days holiday taken in September and 2 in October. He said he wouldn't pay me at the time because I had to keep 5 days back to take over Christmas even though he knew the Hip Operation would mean I would be off sick all of Christmas and January and 5 days is what the full timers have to keep back when I only work 3 days a week anyway. We still have the fight over statutory sick pay to add into this mess.

Holiday not taken by the end of the year is lost forever, I have had the days off, just as unpaid leave and its played havoc with my national insurance I can tell you and made my hours seem as if I work under the minimum to qualify for statutory sick pay which I assume is what he wanted to achieve. This is second hip op, first was 3 years ago when I came back too early after 4 weeks to please him, I've worked there 9 years and have had no other paid sick time off.

All this deliberately incorrectly paying me started back in March when he said he wanted to replace me with something and I quote "young and pretty". He constantly totals the hours I have worked in his favour, 3.5 hours last month was lost, 1 hour the month before and again 3.5 in September. If I say anything, I am told at best "not now" or "I have had all I am getting"
I have had a "good run" and "like it or leave"

Right now, I don't even want to open the door to him, I m not sure I can handle our heavy front door with the new hip which will be stiff from this rain anyway. I'm just not up to it.

Anyone been through an uncaring bully of boss? Any advice? Where do I stand legally?


Can he manipulate the holiday pay so you end up losing it? He forced me to cancel holiday in May which resulted in me losing deposit just to cover the office so he could go on holiday already and when I rescheduled the week away in June, guess what? he didn't pay me for it. This just isn't how work should be.
If you want to be rich, never, ever have kids ;)
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  • agrinnall
    agrinnall Posts: 23,344
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    Why are you still working there?
  • He isn't there day to day, thank goodness and when he isn't there, us staff are fine on daily basis, dealing with clients and orders.


    We are all of same opinion regarding boss, a few have been there years, the rest last weeks and all are looking for alternative employment openly infact. I was waiting for the new bionic hips and with my new bionic bits, I intend to fly.


    in the meantime I have the pay battle to contend with
    any advice on that would be appreciated
    If you want to be rich, never, ever have kids ;)
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882
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    nomorekids wrote: »
    My boss is already paying me less than he should, denied me holiday pay, forced me to cancel holiday, insulting me personally in an effort to get me to leave.


    I had hip operation Thursday and out of hospital as of yesterday, today I'm feeling fragile and I am on my own and therefore not upto his bullying especially in my own home and has sent email to say he ll be round later to discuss December pay.

    He says he ll pay me, the six days I worked in December and no more. He owes me for 3 days holiday taken in September and 2 in October. He said he wouldn't pay me at the time because I had to keep 5 days back to take over Christmas even though he knew the Hip Operation would mean I would be off sick all of Christmas and January and 5 days is what the full timers have to keep back when I only work 3 days a week anyway. We still have the fight over statutory sick pay to add into this mess.

    Holiday not taken by the end of the year is lost forever, I have had the days off, just as unpaid leave and its played havoc with my national insurance I can tell you and made my hours seem as if I work under the minimum to qualify for statutory sick pay which I assume is what he wanted to achieve. This is second hip op, first was 3 years ago when I came back too early after 4 weeks to please him, I've worked there 9 years and have had no other paid sick time off.

    All this deliberately incorrectly paying me started back in March when he said he wanted to replace me with something and I quote "young and pretty". He constantly totals the hours I have worked in his favour, 3.5 hours last month was lost, 1 hour the month before and again 3.5 in September. If I say anything, I am told at best "not now" or "I have had all I am getting"
    I have had a "good run" and "like it or leave"

    Right now, I don't even want to open the door to him, I m not sure I can handle our heavy front door with the new hip which will be stiff from this rain anyway. I'm just not up to it.

    Anyone been through an uncaring bully of boss? Any advice? Where do I stand legally?


    Can he manipulate the holiday pay so you end up losing it? He forced me to cancel holiday in May which resulted in me losing deposit just to cover the office so he could go on holiday already and when I rescheduled the week away in June, guess what? he didn't pay me for it. This just isn't how work should be.


    IF you are off sick and can't take the holiday in the holiday year it carries over.

    Do you work from home?
  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229
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    nomorekids wrote: »
    My boss is already paying me less than he should what do you mean? , denied me holiday pay - employers can dictate when you take holiday , forced me to cancel holiday - employers can do this , insulting me personally in an effort to get me to leave - what was said? .


    I had hip operation Thursday and out of hospital as of yesterday, today I'm feeling fragile and I am on my own and therefore not upto his bullying especially in my own home and has sent email to say he ll be round later to discuss December pay. - Why is he coming to your home?

    He says he ll pay me, the six days I worked in December and no more. - slightly confusing. But are you on sick leave at the minute? He owes me for 3 days holiday taken in September and 2 in October - need a bit more detail on this. Why weren't these paid in Sept and Oct? . He said he wouldn't pay me at the time because I had to keep 5 days back to take over Christmas even though he knew the Hip Operation would mean I would be off sick all of Christmas and January and 5 days is what the full timers have to keep back when I only work 3 days a week anyway. We still have the fight over statutory sick pay to add into this mess. - Technically your employer can do this.

    Holiday not taken by the end of the year is lost forever, I have had the days off, just as unpaid leave and its played havoc with my national insurance I can tell you and made my hours seem as if I work under the minimum to qualify for statutory sick pay which I assume is what he wanted to achieve. - Like I said employer can deny you taking annual leave. It's then your choice This is second hip op, first was 3 years ago when I came back too early after 4 weeks to please him, I've worked there 9 years and have had no other paid sick time off. - why are you still there?

    All this deliberately incorrectly paying me started back in March when he said he wanted to replace me with something and I quote "young and pretty". - That would be age discrimination - did you raise a grievance? He constantly totals the hours I have worked in his favour, 3.5 hours last month was lost, 1 hour the month before and again 3.5 in September. If I say anything, I am told at best "not now" or "I have had all I am getting"
    I have had a "good run" and "like it or leave" - in essence you need to leave.

    Right now, I don't even want to open the door to him, I m not sure I can handle our heavy front door with the new hip which will be stiff from this rain anyway. I'm just not up to it. - It's your home, agan WHY is he coming to your home?

    Anyone been through an uncaring bully of boss? Any advice? Where do I stand legally?


    Can he manipulate the holiday pay so you end up losing it? He forced me to cancel holiday in May which resulted in me losing deposit just to cover the office so he could go on holiday already and when I rescheduled the week away in June, guess what? he didn't pay me for it. This just isn't how work should be.



    If he denies requests for annual leave, he must make other dates available.


    I suggest you find a new job.


    How big is this employer?
  • stator
    stator Posts: 7,441
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    Ask someone else around to be a witness to his behaviour during this meeting in your home.

    Also start recording your conversations

    Keep a diary of all his behaviour.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
  • TBagpuss
    TBagpuss Posts: 11,198
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    Have you raised a formal grievance about his behaviour?

    Talk to your union if you have one, or to ACAS if not, and check whether you have any legal cover with your home or any pother insurance.

    If you endup leaving as a result of his behviour, you would, if you wanted to then claim constructivre dismissal,, need to be able to show you had tried to resolve the issues internally, so a paper trail rather than verbal conersations, and a record showing that you riased it as a formal grievance,may be necessary.

    In the short term,

    I would suggest a note to him (keep a copy)
    Keep it polite, and set out what you believe you are owed and why.

    e.g. £xx for days worked £xx for paid sick pay / SSP as appropriate
    Also set out how many daily holiday you have and that as he will be aware, as the reason you have been unable to take them is that you are signed of sick, that they will carry over (NB this applies to your statutory holiday, not anything over the statutory minimum your contract gives you, which will be subject to what it says in your contract or your employers own rules)

    Ask him to confirm that the amounts you have set our are correct or if he thinks the correct amounts are different, to let you have written conformation of what he believes is due and how that has been calculated.
    All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)
  • Thanks for your replies, he wont carry over the 4 days holiday as we lose any holiday we haven't taken at the end of the year. Does anyone know if this is law that he has to carry over any unused holiday now I am off sick recovering from op?

    I haven't a clue why the holidays taken weren't paid in the months when they were taken, I never know if I am to be paid for holidays taken until I get my pay slip. My salary swings wildly as a result, hence me slipping in and out of paying national insurance.

    I do know I have to leave, we are all looking and all I know about him coming round is for him to tell me he will pay me for the two weeks worked in December ie 6 days (I work 3 days a week) and no more. I obviously wont agree to this as I want to be paid 6 days plus 5 days back holiday and anything I am entitled to get for statutory sick pay especially in January pay as that is all I'll get.

    I keep playing with the sick pay calculator on government website and it looks like to me I have just about earnt enough to qualify for statutory sick pay provided he uses the same calculator. Had I been paid for my holiday days (some of which were for hospital visits to due with hip op) I would definitely qualify no question and can't help thinking that this is the reason why he would not pay me but allowed me the time as unpaid leave.
    If you want to be rich, never, ever have kids ;)
  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229
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    nomorekids wrote: »
    Thanks for your replies, he wont carry over the 4 days holiday as we lose any holiday we haven't taken at the end of the year. Does anyone know if this is law that he has to carry over any unused holiday now I am off sick recovering from op?

    I haven't a clue why the holidays taken weren't paid in the months when they were taken, I never know if I am to be paid for holidays taken until I get my pay slip. My salary swings wildly as a result, hence me slipping in and out of paying national insurance.

    I do know I have to leave, we are all looking and all I know about him coming round is for him to tell me he will pay me for the two weeks worked in December ie 6 days (I work 3 days a week) and no more. I obviously wont agree to this as I want to be paid 6 days plus 5 days back holiday and anything I am entitled to get for statutory sick pay especially in January pay as that is all I'll get.

    I keep playing with the sick pay calculator on government website and it looks like to me I have just about earnt enough to qualify for statutory sick pay provided he uses the same calculator. Had I been paid for my holiday days (some of which were for hospital visits to due with hip op) I would definitely qualify no question and can't help thinking that this is the reason why he would not pay me but allowed me the time as unpaid leave.



    Can you answer some of the other questions?


    why haven't you raised a grievance
    how big is this employer
    why would he physically come to your home


    it's all a bit strange
  • TBagpuss wrote: »
    Have you raised a formal grievance about his behaviour?

    Talk to your union if you have one, or to ACAS if not, and check whether you have any legal cover with your home or any pother insurance.

    If you endup leaving as a result of his behviour, you would, if you wanted to then claim constructivre dismissal,, need to be able to show you had tried to resolve the issues internally, so a paper trail rather than verbal conersations, and a record showing that you riased it as a formal grievance,may be necessary.

    In the short term,

    I would suggest a note to him (keep a copy)
    Keep it polite, and set out what you believe you are owed and why.

    e.g. £xx for days worked £xx for paid sick pay / SSP as appropriate
    Also set out how many daily holiday you have and that as he will be aware, as the reason you have been unable to take them is that you are signed of sick, that they will carry over (NB this applies to your statutory holiday, not anything over the statutory minimum your contract gives you, which will be subject to what it says in your contract or your employers own rules)

    Ask him to confirm that the amounts you have set our are correct or if he thinks the correct amounts are different, to let you have written conformation of what he believes is due and how that has been calculated.

    brilliant idea

    pinged off email, and added todays stairs mobility problem, hoping he wont come now and reply in writing.
    ACAS here I come, I think, we are tiny no union firm, 8 employees total.
    If you want to be rich, never, ever have kids ;)
  • Comms69
    Comms69 Posts: 14,229
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    nomorekids wrote: »
    brilliant idea

    pinged off email, and added todays stairs mobility problem, hoping he wont come now and reply in writing. - Why not just say "You're not welcome in my home"
    ACAS here I come, I think, we are tiny no union firm, 8 employees total.



    Unions don't work that way. Anyone can join a union.
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