Double Billing Communal Heat Network

tsmithc · 29 April 2018 at 10:32PM

I live on a development of new build flats. Some are owned by a housing authority- lets call the housing authority AHA. The other flats including mine are privately owned.

AHA own a plant room that houses cold water pumps and a heating system -the heat is then transferred through a network of hot water pipes. AHA also pump cold water to our properties – so Thames water are seemingly not directly involved in supplying us water. I have been paying Thames Water bills for 6 years since I moved into the property from new. Thames Water supposedly provide water to the central ‘plant room’ only. This is classified as a ‘private network’.

I am paying for hot water and heating to AHA (that includes a daily standing charge). I am paying Thames water for supply of water also.
Thames water is charging me for “water supply” and “wastewater” that includes a "fixed charge". As I see it I am being “double billed”. At the very least for the standing/fixed charge fees.

There was a water leak recently on our communal pipework and Thames Water engineers refused to fix the leak stating "its not our pipework". This does in fact prove we do not have a direct relationship with Thames Water for water supply?

Can anyone explain to me if Thames Water are not supplying me water - Thames Water supplies AHA with water - who then supply me with water. I, in effect do not have a direct relationship with Thames Water for the supply of water to my property?

Therefore it surely cannot be correct for me to pay one company for cold water and another for hot water - I should have a combined hot and cold water bill - with one standing charge - not a separate bill for hot and cold water that includes a standing charge from AHA and a fixed charge from Thames Water.

Any ideas greatly received!

Cardew · 29 April 2018 at 11:04PM

Welcome to the forum.

Since 1980 all water properties should have a water meter fitted; or pay an assessed charge if a meter cannot be fitted.

On what basis do Thames charge for your cold water - Metered, fixed or assessed charge?

I suggest you contact the Consumer Council for water https://www.ccwater.org.uk/ and get them to sort it out - they are very good.

tsmithc · 30 April 2018 at 12:04AM

Thanks Cardew

Yes cold water is metered. A guy from Thames Water comes around occasionally to read the meter. Hot water and heating has a separate smart meter that sends reading automatically to Insite.

Insite are engaged by the housing authority to handle billing for hot water and heating. Then bizarrely cold water is billed by Thames Water- but they dont own the pipework to the properties -thats owned by the housing authority. Seems a total mess.

As we are a "private network" - we have no access to an energy or water ombudsman - I called CCW - they said they couldnt help. Have sent an email but heard nothing.

Have been advised by Citizens Advice to contact Shelter

Insite Energy have been appointed by Landlord/Freeholder to read your heat meter, send out
heating bills and collect payments.

Insite Energy is not responsible for:
• The maintenance of the heating system within the property.
• Your electricity or water supply to your property.
- Your electricity supplier is: British Gas
- Your cold water supplier is: Thames Water

dogshome · 30 April 2018 at 9:21AM

All very strange.

It seems that AHA draw off water from the incoming supply, to supply Hot Water & Heat to the residents - To do this the water used must be metered at the take-off point and paid for.

The residents cold water continues on through the pipework un-metered till it enters each residents flat where it is individually metered.

Complex, but it seems fair.
Unless that is, there is a chargeable meter on the incoming supply prior to the Heat/Hot Water take-off point, that is measuring the consumption of the entire building

Cardew · 30 April 2018 at 9:44AM

The metered cold water supply to your flat will determine your sewerage charges(i.e. wastewater); which are also based on the volume of(cold) water supplied.

What isn't clear is how the sewerage charges for the Hot Water supplied to your flat are assessed. As this hot water for baths/showers etc is not measured by 'your' meter, you can't pay sewerage charges to Thames water for that supply.

Is the volume of hot water supplied to your flat measured? i.e if Flat A has 1 shower a week do they pay less than Flat B that has 5 baths a day? Do AHA charge for sewerage?

tsmithc · 30 April 2018 at 4:37PM

The setup is:
COLD WATER
Cold water is supplied to plant room from Thames Water mains - its stored in giant storage tanks.
Thames water normally 4 bar pressure-which should be enough for low rise blocks - as TW mains has enough pressure for 4 stories -but for some reason we can only get 2 bar pressure - so the water has to be "boosted" to circa 4 bar with pumps- hence why we have AHA pipes to properties and not Thames Water
The boosted cold water is pumped from plant room to our properties
HOT WATER AND HEATING
The Thames Water cold water goes into plant room water storage tanks - from there they are transferred to a gas powered heating system also in the plant room - that generates high temp water that is pumped through pipes into each property - where it enters a HIU - Heat Interface Unit - that is a heat exchanger that converts high temp pumped water into usable hot water for showers etc - and also supplies hot water underfloor heating system

@ dogshome - you make a good point I had a similar view - AHA must be paying Thames Water for the supply of cold water for the hot water system - and then passing that cost onto us. But we are also charged separately for cold water. So we pay 2 sets of standing charge - one for hot water the other for cold water. As we only have an indirect relationship to Thames Water and they refuse to fix our pipework- I dont see why we have to pay 2 sets of standing charge - If AHA are using Thames Water for metering/billing of cold water they should swallow that cost as they are already charging us a Standing Charge for hot water of 33p a day. I guess their argument is if we used say British Gas for heating we would pay BG a standing charge anyway -so this is no different..

@ Cardew - Thames water are charging us for sewerage yes - AHA not charging for sewerage. The hot water and heating billing is all consolidated into one line on our Insite bills. So the 'heating' part and the 'water' part are not separated. You just get a bill for £36.23 or whatever youve used in hot water and/or heating for the month. Im guessing they must be doing waste water calculations based on cold water usage only - I cant see how they are metering hot water usage as thats all AHA equipment as you say.

Just checked my TW bill its saying 52 m3 used for circa 6 months - the amount quoted as water used is the same amount as waste water - 52 m3- so they dont appear to be adding on extra waste water processing cost for hot water usage. Maybe I should consider myself lucky that Im paying more in Standing charges but less in waste water processing?

Double Billing Communal Heat Network

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