Electric cars

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  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    What does an EV not require at a routine dealer service that an ICE car does?

    Oil, an oil filter and an air filter? Everything else will be the same and, no doubt, some form of essential battery/charging system check will be devised to make up the losses.

    It seems that EV's need minimal servicing, sometimes next to no servicing. They also have less 'bits' that need replacing every few years.

    This is one of the reasons that running costs are so much lower (the principal of course being fuel costs).
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

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  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    edited 8 August 2018 at 1:20PM
    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    What does an EV not require at a routine dealer service that an ICE car does?

    Oil, an oil filter and an air filter? Everything else will be the same and, no doubt, some form of essential battery/charging system check will be devised to make up the losses.
    Hi

    What needs to be considered is that as well as what you mention, there'll be far less predicted wear on mechanical components and a considerable reduction in the number of items classified as 'consumable' which almost certainly means that the average service interval will be extended well beyond what is common today ...

    Easier servicing with shorter job lists on a less frequent basis with potentially more modular & cheaper replacement parts seriously impacts the income stream for dedicated dealerships, leaving an expensive sales floor to recover lost income ... options available become an increase in unit sale margins, servicing margins or a cost reduction exercise - the problem here is that increasing margins simply further opens up the market for 3rd party supply & service operations, a definite conundrum for the dealerships to attempt to solve ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • DrEskimo
    DrEskimo Posts: 2,347 Forumite
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    What does an EV not require at a routine dealer service that an ICE car does?

    Oil, an oil filter and an air filter? Everything else will be the same and, no doubt, some form of essential battery/charging system check will be devised to make up the losses.

    The price of a service for a Zoe is £79. The service covers inspection and a cabin filter change. Every three years I believe it's advisable for 12v battery to be changed.

    Obviously compared to a standard ICE, this amount is considerably cheaper, but given a cabin filter is about £5 and even I can change it in no more than 10mins, it's quite overpriced to me...!

    Brakes rarely need changing due to regen braking.

    I think the inability to use local garages at reasonable rates is an issue though. More so with respect to out of warranty repairs. If anyone has watched videos from Rich Rebuilds, they will know that Tesla have a VERY closed system when it comes to buying parts and getting repairs done yourself. As such, it forces the customer to use main dealers and pay the often very high labour and parts costs.

    I imagine as EV's become more mainstream this will be less of an issue, but at the moment I get the impression that an EV out of warranty could be costly. Not for the battery so much (which usually gets all the attention, despite my research showing very little number of battery repairs or replacement or degradation over the years), but everything else!

    Again, this isn't because of the complication, but rather just having no option but to suffer at the hands of often dreadful customer service and ridiculously high pricing from main dealerships.

    I guess it's good that extending the warranty for the Zoe, for example, is relatively cheap at just £289 a year.
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    zeupater wrote: »
    Hi

    What needs to be considered is that as well as what you mention, there'll be far less predicted wear on mechanical components and a considerable reduction in the number of items classified as 'consumable' which almost certainly means that the average service interval will be extended well beyond what is common today ...

    Why? Brakes maybe, but surely everything else will be subject to exactly the same wear and tear.

    Edit: I'm specifically referring to the first few years of ownership where dealers are typically used for servicing.
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    Why? Brakes maybe, but surely everything else will be subject to exactly the same wear and tear.

    Edit: I'm specifically referring to the first few years of ownership where dealers are typically used for servicing.
    Hi

    It may suit the argument to only consider the 'first few years', but many still use main dealer servicing for considerably longer than the warranty period & higher mileage owners can be lumbered with servicing costs every few months ... as for consumable components - plugs, exhausts, timing belts etc all add considerable costs to servicing and need to be considered ... add just those 3 into a 'service & maintenance' plan & you're likely looking at an additional £1k to ICE service costs for the majority of vehicles/dealerships ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • silverwhistle
    silverwhistle Posts: 3,791 Forumite
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    If I look at the servicing costs of my 9 year old hatchback I find the main costs are the regular services which include oil, plugs and filter.



    The other items I've had done in the last few years are front suspension thingy rods and a 12v battery I replaced myself this year: I think I still had the original. Other consumables like bulbs and blades, of course. These would be the same for an EV. Similarly with my discs, which I'll get done at next service. The A/C compressor replacement I'll just ignore: I'm used to older cars with amenities not working!



    So there's definitely a saving on the regular service, the issue from there on is more complicated. But as Herzlos commented, with low annual mileage (apart from my bloomin' ski trip to the Alps), new EVs just don't make sense, solar panels or not. So I'm also someone waiting another 3 years for an improved second hand market.
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    DrEskimo wrote: »
    The price of a service for a Zoe is £79. The service covers inspection and a cabin filter change. Every three years I believe it's advisable for 12v battery to be changed.

    A Tesla Model S annual service costs £400 - £500.

    I would expect more than a cabin filter change for that.
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    zeupater wrote: »
    Hi

    It may suit the argument to only consider the 'first few years',

    It suits the argument and is appropriate as EVs haven't been around long enough in large enough numbers to make a valid comparison.
  • ElefantEd
    ElefantEd Posts: 1,189 Forumite
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    We've always had our Leaf serviced by the local mechanic. All it has needed are occasional new brake pads and bits of the suspension replaced where the potholes have destroyed them. Then there are the usual tyre and windscreen wiper replacements. Have had to change the 12V battery once. Apart from that, there isn't anything to service, so it is very cheap, nor does it need to be done by a main dealer.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    edited 8 August 2018 at 7:52PM
    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    A Tesla Model S annual service costs £400 - £500.

    I would expect more than a cabin filter change for that.

    You forgot context / fair comparison.

    TESLA MODEL S HITS 300,000 MILES WITH LESS THAN $11,000 MAINTENANCE COSTS
    During the first 300,000 miles the total combined maintenance and fuel costs of the Tesla Model S were $10,492, with a total of 12 days in the shop. Of these costs, $6,900 was scheduled maintenance and $3500 was headlight damage due to driving through deep water. Had this been an Mercedes S class, the scheduled routine maintenance and fuel would have been $86,000 ($52,000 maintenance and $36,000* fuel) with 112 days of servicing, or for a Lincoln Town Car $70,000 ($28,000 maintenance and $42,000** fuel) with around 100 days of servicing.

    Edit - I suppose a reference to life expectancy (though not part of this exact discussion) is worthwhile too:
    !!!8220;Over the last two years, we have seen that that electric, supercharged vehicles can be deployed at utilization levels unheard of with gas vehicles. And while saving over $60,000 on fuel and maintenance is a substantial economic win, we feel the bigger win is that this car is ready for another 900,000 miles over the next 6 years under its current warranty. A gas car with 300,000 miles would be near the end of its useful lifespan. This means that the economics for mobility services on electric is more attractive than non-electric vehicles by a multiple, and when combined with autonomous driving features, the economic advantage in cost per mile will create unprecedented disruption in the overall automotive industry.!!!8221;
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
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