Electric cars

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  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    Martyn1981 wrote: »
    If a 300,000 mile comparison to competitors on the EV you've mentioned isn't enough, then what sort of period are you waiting for?

    If servicing and maintenance from day one is less, and less costly, then are you expecting some sort of reversal in later life, bearing in mind that ICE costs increase as the vehicle gets older?

    It is possible, although I'm thinking of the likely sharp drop in the value of the car as the battery approaches the end of its useful life... whatever that is deemed to be. Of course, there may be a market for old cars with limited range. They would remain useful for short commutes etc.
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    edited 9 August 2018 at 8:09AM
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    buglawton wrote: »
    I've read something like, drive train EV vs Internal Combustion is 30 vs 2000 moving parts.

    IC drive trains have had at least 100 years of refinement and even then, high reliability only arrived in the 1980s with Japanese QC thinking.

    Give EV a few more years and they'll be as reliable as... well, iPhones. Most problems will be software related.

    As has been pointed out, electric motors have around longer than practical IC engines so you would think that the bugs would have been worked out by now. The rest of the drivetrain: gearboxes, differentials, driveshafts etc. are shared with IC vehicles, so not much room for excuses there.

    To be fair to Tesla, a lot of the reported reliability issues in the Whatcar survey were nothing to do with the powertrain and could have just as easily occurred on a conventional car.
  • Car_54
    Car_54 Posts: 8,213 Forumite
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    As has been pointed out, electric motors have around longer than practical IC engines so you would think that the bugs would have been worked out by now. The rest of the drivetrain: gearboxes, differentials, driveshafts etc. are shared with IC vehicles, so not much room for excuses there.


    Gearboxes?
  • Stageshoot
    Stageshoot Posts: 592 Forumite
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    silverwhistle wrote: »
    Me too. But the main issue of the battery should have an indicator of its health - eg: the 12 bars in a new Leaf, and second hand ones advertised as 11 bars or 10. As long as the trade doesn't learn how to "clock" these you should be able to buy with some confidence..

    Virtually all EVs can be checked very simply with an OBD Dongle.

    This is a screenshot from my Zoe, showing the full rundown on the battery,

    About halfway down you can see State Of Health %

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/FuZ6r2od1iNopx5MA

    FuZ6r2od1iNopx5MA

    a 10 Second Check, as buyers become more savvy and this can be checked with a smartphone, this should help. also maybe as things move forward its something that could be recorded on the MOT like mileage.
    Over 100k miles of Electric Motoring and rising,
  • NBLondon
    NBLondon Posts: 5,530 Forumite
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    Car_54 wrote: »
    Gearboxes?
    Transmission then.... Unless you've got a motor on each wheel (like the original Porsche designs) then there must be something to transfer the motor rotation to the driven axle(s). But a less complex construction and as said before - has been in use in other applications - trams and trolleybuses for decades. Which makes me think - there are 70 or so all-electric buses on the streets of London right now which are coming up to 2/3 years old. Wonder how they are doing for maintenance costs?
    Wash your Knobs and Knockers... Keep the Postie safe!
  • Gloomendoom
    Gloomendoom Posts: 16,550 Forumite
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    Car_54 wrote: »
    Gearboxes?

    Yes, gearboxes. Most EV have some sort of reduction gear between the motor and the wheels. The I-Pace, for example has two single speed epicyclic gearboxes.
  • AnotherJoe
    AnotherJoe Posts: 19,622 Forumite
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    edited 9 August 2018 at 10:04AM
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    So why does the Tesla Model S only score 50% in the 2017 Whatcar reliability survey? Only Land Rover and Jeep were worse.


    Cherrypicking one car with an issue doesn't remove the fact that those components arent there to go wrong, on all EVs and will never need maintenance or replacement, which costs money and is a source of profit for dealers and manufacturers. That was the point of my post regarding dealers and why they dont like EVs.


    I dont know what the issue is with the S, or if its been fixed now, the problem could simply be one common issue, for example ISTR that the steering box has a component shared with (ironically) JLR that is faulty and now subject to a recall but Tesla appear to have dragged their feet acknowledging and then sorting that out. And whatever the issue is with the S, you'll never need to buy spark plugs, exhaust,and so on (back to my list) for a model S.



    So it would have been much worse if it had all the moving and replaceable parts an ICE car has !!
  • buglawton
    buglawton Posts: 9,235 Forumite
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    As has been pointed out, electric motors have around longer than practical IC engines so you would think that the bugs would have been worked out by now. The rest of the drivetrain: gearboxes, differentials, driveshafts etc. are shared with IC vehicles, so not much room for excuses there.

    To be fair to Tesla, a lot of the reported reliability issues in the Whatcar survey were nothing to do with the powertrain and could have just as easily occurred on a conventional car.
    That's why I used the term drivetrain not motor. It really is something a like a 50 vs 2000 part count comparison. Pistons, tappets, belts, engine fan, drive shafts, differential, catalytic converter,DPF, plugs...

    Meanwhile electrical motors probably are already more reliable that ICs, just maybe not the one in your vacuum cleaner.
  • Martyn1981
    Martyn1981 Posts: 14,762 Forumite
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    Gloomendoom wrote: »
    It is possible, although I'm thinking of the likely sharp drop in the value of the car as the battery approaches the end of its useful life... whatever that is deemed to be. Of course, there may be a market for old cars with limited range. They would remain useful for short commutes etc.

    It all depends what the reduction in battery capacity is. If it only drops to 80% capacity over 10+yrs, then it would still be perfectly fine for those people looking for a range of 80% of that the original owner wanted/needed.

    If the decline to 80% is slow and steady, then it probably won't have much effect on the value of the car, certainly not a sharp drop.

    BTW, gearboxes? A single fixed reduction gear is nowhere near as complex as a 5, 6, 7+ forward and reverse gear transmission.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • buglawton
    buglawton Posts: 9,235 Forumite
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    There's a charming and simple conversion available for some classic cars
    eg the Morris Minors pictured here http://londonelectriccars.com/
    I remember reading an article that the entire conversion from London Electric Cars costs around £12k, but you must supply a prime example of the car, mind.
    And the drive train is still mechanical after the motor. But that should be taken care of for a long time to come by enthusiast clubs that can advise on specialist parts suppliers.
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