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going to court vs VCS

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Hi, VCS have sent me an AOS.
the ticket was issued in July 2015 whilst I was making a delivery to a 99p store (now a poundland) i have delivered many times to the store before and after and still deliver to the P/L.
I was in their delivery area that is a shared yard with Iceland.
They have a couple of there signs up and there are gates, but there is also a sign from another company up on the 99p wall.
As it was 4 years ago I have not got my delivery ticket anymore. I believe that I sent them a copy at the time with a covering letter explaining what the van was doing at the time. I had permission to park where in the yard from the store manager.
I have replied to the AOS but not submitted my defence as was looking for my POD.
please help

Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,638 Forumite
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    Tell us again what VCS has sent you. What is a AOS in this context?

    Have you perhaps received a Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton?

    If so, what is the Issue Date on that Claim Form?
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    Same as all the other 2015 VCS claim cases - search the forum.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Posterman
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    Hi, VCS have sent me a letter before claim. and about a month later i have received a AOS from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton.
    I have until the 27th to file my defence.
    have pulled of some stuff from the multitude of posts.
    can you tell me if VCS should of taken me to POPLA first as they have not, or was I supposed to take them.
    Many thanks
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
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    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,638 Forumite
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    A week ago I asked you for the Issue Date on your Claim Form.

    The clock is ticking...

    Not my clock... the court's clock...
  • Posterman
    Posterman Posts: 5 Forumite
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    HI Kieth, issue date 24 June.
    I replied to the Court AOS and have untill the 27th of July to send them my defence.
    Any tips or corrections would be welcome.
    My Defence.
    1. It is admitted that the defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question.
    2. As this PCN was issued in July 2015 I have no idea if I was driving the van on the day in question. I will make all the following points in the first party for the sake of expediency.
    3. The location of the said offence is a gated shared delivery yard for Iceland and at the time 99p stores (now Poundland).
    4. My company had delivered to this 99p store on many occasions before and after the PCN was issued and is still delivering to the Poundland store to date.
    5. The delivery yard has a gate which must be opened by a member of staff from one of the stores. We always get permission from the store manager to use the yard to make our delivery as you must sign into the store each time.
    6. The reason for this parking company`s presence on this site can only be for the sole purpose of deterring parking from uninvited persons, for the benefit of drivers authorised by the leaseholder businesses.
    7. The driver was allowed the right to unload by the leasehold business, relying on an express verbal agreement with the stores management. This permission created the prevailing and overriding contract –the only contract-and the business was concluded as agreed, at no cost or penalty.
    8. Loading with the permission of the landowner/leaseholder is not `parking` and signs cannot override existing rights enjoyed landowners and their visitors, as was found in the appeal case decided by His Honour judge Harris QC at Oxford County Court. In case number B9GF0A9E: Jopson V Home Guard Services.
    8i In the Jopson appeal it was also held as a finding of fact, that stopping to unload is not `parking`.
    8ii In the Jopson appeal it was also held that signs added later by a third party parking firm are of no consequence to authorised visitors to premises where other rights prevail and supersede any alleged new `parking contract.`
    9. The right of the onsite businesses to allow authorised vehicles to load/unload pre-dates the arrival of this claimant.
    10. In any event, the signs make no offer to authorised visitors engaged in permitted loading/unloading for which no parking permit was ever required.
    11. Furthermore, the signage in the yard was and still is, unclear as there are two parking companies with signs on display. In fact the other company`s board is displayed on the wall of the 99p store which I was parked adjacent to.
    12. This charge represents a breach of the well-known and well-established principle of promissory estoppel i.e. that a promise is enforceable by law, even if made without formal consideration, when party A has made a promise to party B, who then relies on that promise to his subsequent detriment.
    13. This charge represents a breach of the well-known and well-established principle that ‘a grantor shall not derogate from his grant’. This rule embodies a general legal principle that, On the on hand the security/reception staff verbally allowed access and opened the gate, to enable loading/unloading on more than one occasion (the vehicle could not have entered without such express permission and this is proved by the very fact that the gate was opened to allow entry of the vehicle.). Landholders cannot allow or promise this on the one hand, then on the other hand, take away this permission or promise, in allowing a third party to disallow and/or seek or charge for the permitted action by a driver.
    14. if A agrees to confer a benefit on B then A should not do anything that substantially deprives B of the enjoyment of that benefit.
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,638 Forumite
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    edited 22 July 2019 at 6:14PM
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    Posterman wrote: »
    HI Kieth, issue date 24 June.
    I replied to the Court AOS and have untill the 27th of July to send them my defence.
    You are almost right with your target date - you have a couple of days more than you thought.

    With a Claim Issue Date of 24th June, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 29th July 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's one week away. Loads of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
      Print your Defence.
    1. Sign it and date it.
    2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
    7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
  • Posterman
    Posterman Posts: 5 Forumite
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    Hi, thanks for your reply to my post.
    I have read a shed load of the posts and replys on this subject.
    I have put my defence on my thread if you could have a read of it and give me any advice or pointers I would very much appreciate it.
    many thanks in advance.
  • Snakes_Belly
    Snakes_Belly Posts: 3,696 Forumite
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    With regard to mediation it is not recommended for this type of claim. The claim has been denied in totality.

    Mediation is more suitable where there is a claim but the amount is in question such as a claim for damages as the result of an accident.

    Nolite te bast--des carborundorum.
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 22,309 Forumite
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    Good stab at a defence but would suggest you look at some or all of the 17 pre-written defence examples in the NEWBIE thread post # 2. starting from here: -
    Here are some cases won or in progress:

    Here is a defence
    This will give you some idea of the style, including the header and footer and including the statement of truth. There may be some points you have missed or can add and you will see that all defences are written in the third person. Also, if your claim refers to an additional £60, search for and read the thread by beamerguy (and in particular post # 14 of that thread by Coupon-mad) about Abuse of Process.
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