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  • FIRST POST
    • EmmaH337
    • By EmmaH337 19th Oct 19, 10:33 PM
    • 2Posts
    • 0Thanks
    EmmaH337
    Won’t sell me car as I don’t want finance
    • #1
    • 19th Oct 19, 10:33 PM
    Won’t sell me car as I don’t want finance 19th Oct 19 at 10:33 PM
    Hi MSE,

    I hope this is in the right place...

    So I am in the market for a used car. I went to see the car I hoped to buy on Thursday this week. All good, slept on it and decided I’d go back to the dealer yesterday (Friday) to buy the car for just over 20k

    I rang the dealer first thing Friday morning as it is an hour+ drive and just wanted to make sure the car was definitely still available, on the extreme off chance it was sold between 17:30-20:00 on Thursday night after I left. A different salesman answered and I explained the situation. He kept talking about finance which I had to keep telling him I did not need and I also did not need any ‘extras’ as my family own a car garage, I simply wanted to come pay the 20k and drive away today. I was told the salesman I was dealing with would call me back when he got in.

    I received a call at 13:30 to tell me the car had been sold....on Thursday night after I left.

    Being a financial fraud investigator for the past 15 years I couldn’t help but feel suspicious. I felt like it was because I didn’t want finance or extras.

    I just so happen to have a good work colleague who lives very close to the dealership. He called in to see if the car was still available...and guess what, it is. This was confirmed with the salesman. It is still listed on Autotrader and their website.

    This is a large and UK wide dealership by the way.

    Has anything illegal occurred here?

    Thank you
Page 2
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 20th Oct 19, 10:37 AM
    • 19,749 Posts
    • 12,412 Thanks
    motorguy
    If the OP can prove that they have genuinely-held religious convictions that would preclude them taking finance, then there might be an outside chance of something sticking on the grounds of religious discrimination. But unless the mere threat of it made the supplier give way, you'd be looking at a very long, expensive and risky legal process.

    Islam does have that - but there are many sharia-compatible finance packages on the market, so trying to claim that would be a non-starter so long as there was one available.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    "IF". Which was my point. We've no evidence they are a member of a protected group or have beliefs which would be protected. Thus we seem to be going down a rabbit hole here on something that doesnt seem to be relevant.

    Likewise the O/P has no evidence that hes not being sold the car because he wouldnt take finance.

    I'd be ringing the sales manager rather than assuming.
    Last edited by motorguy; 20-10-2019 at 10:42 AM.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • tealady
    • By tealady 20th Oct 19, 2:14 PM
    • 3,238 Posts
    • 4,360 Thanks
    tealady
    Motorguy I LOVE your sig. It's me to a T.
    Proud to be an MSE nerd
    Judge people by their achievements, not by their mistakes
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 20th Oct 19, 4:38 PM
    • 19,749 Posts
    • 12,412 Thanks
    motorguy
    Motorguy I LOVE your sig. It's me to a T.
    Originally posted by tealady
    Cheers. I cant take credit for it, but yes i think its a brilliant quote too.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • JackeeBoy
    • By JackeeBoy 20th Oct 19, 10:54 PM
    • 219 Posts
    • 73 Thanks
    JackeeBoy
    Just buy the car on finance and pay it off straight away. Nothing they can do about it.
    • DUTR
    • By DUTR 20th Oct 19, 11:24 PM
    • 12,348 Posts
    • 7,008 Thanks
    DUTR
    Just buy the car on finance and pay it off straight away. Nothing they can do about it.
    Originally posted by JackeeBoy
    Isn't there often an arrangement and settlement fee?
    • buglawton
    • By buglawton 20th Oct 19, 11:39 PM
    • 8,788 Posts
    • 5,509 Thanks
    buglawton
    OP said early on, 'Being a financial fraud investigator for the past 15 years'. In that case OP you are more qualified and knowledgeable than all of those replying to answer your own question!
    • FtbDreaming
    • By FtbDreaming 20th Oct 19, 11:45 PM
    • 161 Posts
    • 294 Thanks
    FtbDreaming
    As somebody else said they're probably worried about money laundering... unless you're absolutely loaded not many people have 20k cash for a car so maybe this particular branch isnt used to having such high cash sales.
    • GDB2222
    • By GDB2222 21st Oct 19, 12:01 AM
    • 16,276 Posts
    • 84,133 Thanks
    GDB2222
    Can you not purchase it with finance then cancel the finance (and pay it off with your savings) within the cooling off period?
    Originally posted by waamo
    For those of us unfamiliar with finance, could you kindly explain what's involved with cancelling, please? I'm afraid that I've only ever paid cash for cars when I've bought them.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 21st Oct 19, 1:18 AM
    • 8,741 Posts
    • 12,219 Thanks
    waamo
    For those of us unfamiliar with finance, could you kindly explain what's involved with cancelling, please? I'm afraid that I've only ever paid cash for cars when I've bought them.
    Originally posted by GDB2222
    There will be instructions on the paperwork. It usually involves ringing them up and saying you don't wish to proceed with the agreement. Sometimes you have to write to them to tell them.
    This space for hire.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 21st Oct 19, 8:22 AM
    • 435 Posts
    • 288 Thanks
    Supersonos
    Supersons - The best they could offer was a reduction from 10.9% or 11.9% down to 7.9% over 36 months minimum. Way too high when I am lucky enough to have the cash in bank.
    Originally posted by EmmaH337
    But if you do what I suggested and take-out the finance and then immdiately pay it off with the cash you have, the interest rate is a moot point.

    You take out the finance satisfying the dealer, then pay-off the finance satisfying yourself.

    Check the Ts and Cs, but I think they legally have to offer a cooling-off period.
    • Stratus
    • By Stratus 21st Oct 19, 9:49 AM
    • 153 Posts
    • 80 Thanks
    Stratus
    If, as the OP suspects, the dealer might be in breach of Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading 2008.

    https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN04678

    The first part of point 5 and also point 6 of schedule 1 has the following examples indicating the trader may be in breach of the regulations:

    5. Making an invitation to purchase products at a specified price without disclosing the existence of any reasonable grounds the trader may have for believing that he will not be able to offer for supply, or to procure another trader to supply, those products or equivalent products at that price for a period that is, and in quantities that are, reasonable having regard to the product, the scale of advertising of the product and the price offered (bait advertising).

    6. Making an invitation to purchase products at a specified price and then—

    (a)refusing to show the advertised item to consumers,

    In any case I would imagine the OP would no longer wish to give them 20K for the way they have been treated.

    I believe the advice if you suspect such breaches to have occurred, is to report them to Citizen's Advice who should refer the matter to Trading Standards.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 21st Oct 19, 10:49 AM
    • 10,812 Posts
    • 10,721 Thanks
    Herzlos
    It could be that it had been sold to someone who was going to buy on finance, then didn't complete on the sale. Also one salesperson may have been dealing with you and hasdn't told their colleagues.
    So, possibly they lied, possibly they didn't.
    Originally posted by tealady

    It's also possible that the other guy you spoke to didn't realise you were the same buyer as the other sales guy and thus thought it was sold (to you).



    As somebody else said they're probably worried about money laundering... unless you're absolutely loaded not many people have 20k cash for a car so maybe this particular branch isnt used to having such high cash sales.
    Originally posted by FtbDreaming

    I don't think he literally meant paying with a pile of notes (dealers aren't allowed to take more than Ł5k in cash for laundering reasons, many won't take more than Ł1k as it's a pain to deal with). Presumably he was going to pay by card/bank transfer rather than credit.


    What's so special about this car that means you need to buy that one from that dealer?
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 21st Oct 19, 10:49 AM
    • 435 Posts
    • 288 Thanks
    Supersonos
    If, as the OP suspects, the dealer might be in breach of Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading 2008.
    Originally posted by Stratus
    Those don't apply.

    The trader is offering the goods for sale at the price advertised, it's the OP who doesn't want to buy the offered goods at the advertised price using the finance product also offered.
    • Mercdriver
    • By Mercdriver 21st Oct 19, 11:23 AM
    • 3,040 Posts
    • 2,102 Thanks
    Mercdriver
    Personally I wouldn't be wanting to deal further with the dealer. However, if that is genuinely the only place to get the car, then it might be worth getting some form of professional advice (CAB should be sufficient) as to whether the dealer is legally being overly restrictive regarding forms of payment.

    I'm not sure that the advice to take out the finance in any case is necessarily helpful in every case, especially if someone in this position were thinking of taking out a mortgage in the near future.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 21st Oct 19, 1:59 PM
    • 19,749 Posts
    • 12,412 Thanks
    motorguy
    As somebody else said they're probably worried about money laundering... unless you're absolutely loaded not many people have 20k cash for a car so maybe this particular branch isnt used to having such high cash sales.
    Originally posted by FtbDreaming
    If you're moving money from one account to another or paying by debit card, theres no money laundering issue.

    I paid for my year old Passat with a Ł16K bank transfer. No issues at all. Its cash over a certain amount they cant / wont take.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 21st Oct 19, 2:01 PM
    • 19,749 Posts
    • 12,412 Thanks
    motorguy
    STILL no evidence that thats why the O/P wasnt sold the car.

    And i'd be ringing and asking to speak to the Sales Manager to understand whats went wrong. Not difficult.
    Last edited by motorguy; 21-10-2019 at 2:04 PM.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • alembicbassman
    • By alembicbassman 21st Oct 19, 2:46 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 72 Thanks
    alembicbassman
    Cash buyers are being marginalised. My brother went for an interview at the local dealership and was told that they make very little on the car. The big money is made on the finance and warranties.

    My barber was pretty much forced to take out finance for his Ford, the dealer flatly refused to sell him the car for cash at the stated price. He had been a customer there for over 10 years. He changes his car every 3 years.
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 21st Oct 19, 3:31 PM
    • 5,912 Posts
    • 5,989 Thanks
    BoGoF
    Unless you are an extemely poor negotiator you should be able to get some dealer contribution thrown into a finance deal and or some extras such as a couple of free services. Take the finance and haggle, and as stated above cancel or settle the finance early. You can actually pay less on finance than you would have paid cash.

    The days of cash being king are gone (for now, the recent Ombudsman announcement re finance commission may change that)
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 21st Oct 19, 3:32 PM
    • 8,027 Posts
    • 9,118 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    My barber was pretty much forced to take out finance for his Ford, the dealer flatly refused to sell him the car for cash at the stated price. He had been a customer there for over 10 years. He changes his car every 3 years.
    Originally posted by alembicbassman
    .......... and changes his dealer every time he gets this obstructive attitude.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 21st Oct 19, 4:16 PM
    • 19,749 Posts
    • 12,412 Thanks
    motorguy
    Cash buyers are being marginalised. My brother went for an interview at the local dealership and was told that they make very little on the car. The big money is made on the finance and warranties.

    My barber was pretty much forced to take out finance for his Ford, the dealer flatly refused to sell him the car for cash at the stated price. He had been a customer there for over 10 years. He changes his car every 3 years.
    Originally posted by alembicbassman
    The problem is that prices and margins have been driven down on cars by buyers because they can now simply look up the cars on autotrader and sort by lowest price. If your car is not the cheapest, the phone doesnt ring.

    Likewise on new cars its a fight to the death for the cheapest price.

    There isnt BIG money to be made on finance and warranties - its where dealers now have to go to try to recover some of the lost profit they need to function.

    If someone walks in with cash, no finance requirement, wants no extras and has no trade in to resell and make profit it, it frankly is unlikely to be worth the dealers while selling it. The dealer will prefer to sit tight and wait on the right customer and a more palatable deal.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
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