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  • FIRST POST
    • MSE Steve
    • By MSE Steve 24th Jun 16, 9:31 AM
    • 78Posts
    • 29Thanks
    MSE Steve
    MSE News: Martin's reaction to Brexit
    • #1
    • 24th Jun 16, 9:31 AM
    MSE News: Martin's reaction to Brexit 24th Jun 16 at 9:31 AM
    MoneySavingExpert.com founder Martin Lewis has posted a short homemade video with his initial reaction to the referendum result...
    Read the full story:
    'Martin's reaction to Brexit – what will it mean for the economy, mortgages, savings and more?'

    Click reply below to discuss. If you haven’t already, join the forum to reply. If you aren’t sure how it all works, read our New to Forum? Intro Guide.
    Last edited by MSE Luke; 24-06-2016 at 10:33 AM.
Page 4
    • phoenix_w
    • By phoenix_w 25th Jun 16, 9:15 AM
    • 411 Posts
    • 355 Thanks
    phoenix_w
    A huge part. I saw some interviews with members of the public on TV
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    I daresay that the media choose those people specifically to appease people like you who want to believe it's all about racism.

    Have you actually spoke to your friends and colleagues who voted to leave rather than believing the biased media? You may be surprised that they voted because they want the right to buy a more powerful vacuum cleaner.
    • matttye
    • By matttye 25th Jun 16, 10:53 AM
    • 4,748 Posts
    • 2,994 Thanks
    matttye
    Most of 'em haven't got the intelligence to vote. Surely you must have heard some of the jackass-like chuntering during vox-pop interviews recently - politicians and public alike? I wonder if I can obtain Irish citizenship?
    Originally posted by GingerBob
    Another "enlightened" bremainer calling all of the brexiters thick. Yawn.
    What will your verse be?

    R.I.P Robin Williams.
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 25th Jun 16, 2:25 PM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 1,657 Thanks
    GingerBob
    Another "enlightened" bremainer calling all of the brexiters thick. Yawn.
    Originally posted by matttye

    Okay, so they aren't ALL thick. Let's just call it national stupidity. If it's so bloody good that we're leaving, why has the pound dropped to its lowest level since 1985 or whenever, and why have shares plummeted? Does someone know something that the Brexiteers don't?
    Last edited by GingerBob; 25-06-2016 at 2:26 PM. Reason: sp.
    • eDicky
    • By eDicky 25th Jun 16, 3:21 PM
    • 5,040 Posts
    • 3,085 Thanks
    eDicky
    You may be surprised that they voted because they want the right to buy a more powerful vacuum cleaner.
    Originally posted by phoenix_w
    This is the incredible truth, my own brother voted on that basis.

    Putting such a important decision in the hands of a dumbed-down population of Sun readers and liars with their political ambitions is democracy gone mad. Now the the British, the whole of Europe, the world, has to try and live with and survive the results.
    • Marchitiello
    • By Marchitiello 25th Jun 16, 3:26 PM
    • 353 Posts
    • 147 Thanks
    Marchitiello
    I strongly believe that a large proportion of Exit voters have simply bought in the misleading campaign put together by the Brexit side. They have not fully considered the repercussions in the short/medium and long term.

    Someone above mentioned that a voter could have chosen Brexit because he simply would like to choose to buy a more powerful vacuum cleaner... Well great example of misconception. Indeed the EU put out a directive about the max power of certain appliances, in line with energy consumption reductions attempt to try to help the environment. So the aim was the greater good of the environment impact and decision like this can still happen influenced by world wide trends to try to preserve for future generations this planet called Earth we all call home.

    Another big chunk of voters keep referring to decision made by people they have not elected.. Well, a basic understanding of why every so often we have held EMP election would have helped them. In simple term it can be the same arguement that voters in Richmond will have if the new runaway at HTW is ever built. They can argue that people in Westminster they have not elected have imposed their decision on them, without understanding that the MP they have elected is part of that decision making...

    And finally a more practical understanding of European single market economy would help them understand that whilst the likes of Toyota and Nissan may not close the factories here, if export to the EU will incur in tariffs, they may well move the production of all right hand drive vehicles to factories in east Europe, with loss of jobs, suppliers etc as well cash flow into the UK. And there are also small businesses, like the one I have share in, that are based here, produce in EU and ship directly from the production sites outside the EU, invoicing from the UK and therefore bringing cash flow in the UK, and after paying the supplier in the rest of the EU, keeping the profit here, as well as paying accountants, lawyers and others in the UK. Our business is already evaluating moving the register office to Dublin for example, and we are on the very small side, so imagine what happen when large service and financial organisation will do the same...
    Last edited by Marchitiello; 25-06-2016 at 11:36 PM.
    • LesU
    • By LesU 25th Jun 16, 8:46 PM
    • 338 Posts
    • 163 Thanks
    LesU
    Does this mean that the likes of Amazon, Google, Microsoft et al won't be able to do massive amounts of business in the UK and then pay their corporation taxes in another part of the EU, where they have declared their headquarters to be based? No wonder they were all against Brexit.
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 25th Jun 16, 10:03 PM
    • 26,350 Posts
    • 13,522 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    Does this mean that the likes of Amazon, Google, Microsoft et al won't be able to do massive amounts of business in the UK and then pay their corporation taxes in another part of the EU, where they have declared their headquarters to be based? No wonder they were all against Brexit.
    Originally posted by LesU
    We don't know yet as the nuts and bolts of Brexit have not been worked out - that is to come in the withdrawal process.

    But yes in future we can tell any company that has a physical office in the UK that they have to pay taxes here.

    No doubt some will try to find a way to avoid - remember the dvd/cd companies that were based in Jersey because they found a loophole to avoid charging VAT?
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 25th Jun 16, 10:04 PM
    • 66,351 Posts
    • 58,409 Thanks
    Thrugelmir
    Does this mean that the likes of Amazon, Google, Microsoft et al won't be able to do massive amounts of business in the UK and then pay their corporation taxes in another part of the EU, where they have declared their headquarters to be based? No wonder they were all against Brexit.
    Originally posted by LesU
    Google offices got raided last month in Paris. Days are numbered for tax evasion.
    “Risk comes from not knowing what you are doing. – Warren Buffett”
    • Marchitiello
    • By Marchitiello 25th Jun 16, 11:39 PM
    • 353 Posts
    • 147 Thanks
    Marchitiello
    We don't know yet as the nuts and bolts of Brexit have not been worked out - that is to come in the withdrawal process.

    But yes in future we can tell any company that has a physical office in the UK that they have to pay taxes here.

    No doubt some will try to find a way to avoid - remember the dvd/cd companies that were based in Jersey because they found a loophole to avoid charging VAT?
    Originally posted by jonesMUFCforever
    It is the way around as well: Barclays and HSBC have been making business all over the EU and pay corporation taxes for all the business in here. And those financial institution tax bill can easily outweight any potential loss of the Amazon percentage paid elsewhere ...
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 26th Jun 16, 8:31 AM
    • 10,959 Posts
    • 8,967 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    But yes in future we can tell any company that has a physical office in the UK that they have to pay taxes here.
    Originally posted by jonesMUFCforever
    Pay tax on what? All UK turnover? All UK profit? All global profit?

    International transfer pricing is a complex issue and I can't see being out of the EU making it any more transparent, far from it.

    And global companies that don't do much business here could simple choose to leave, and I expect that many will do exactly that. HSBC could well be one of the first to make the announcement.
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 26th Jun 16, 9:22 AM
    • 10,933 Posts
    • 7,263 Thanks
    bigadaj
    There's a reasonable possibility of changes at major companies and particularly banks.

    HSBC would be an odd one though, it's only a few months before they ruled out a move from London to hong Kong, their European business isn't significant in their overall worldwide business. Like all the big banks they have to work through the us, and pay the fines, sorry taxes, determined by the us regulators. However a us listing would give them even more regulatory issues, so I can't see HSBC being an early mover. The big German and French banks will certainly move some or all of their operations, and potentially us and Swiss as well, though to what extent well have to wait and see.
    • Marchitiello
    • By Marchitiello 26th Jun 16, 1:51 PM
    • 353 Posts
    • 147 Thanks
    Marchitiello
    Pay tax on what? All UK turnover? All UK profit? All global profit?

    International transfer pricing is a complex issue and I can't see being out of the EU making it any more transparent, far from it.

    And global companies that don't do much business here could simple choose to leave, and I expect that many will do exactly that. HSBC could well be one of the first to make the announcement.
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    If you look at Non EU companies currently trading in the UK/Europe, they basically register a separate company owned by the mother company outside the EU. The new UK/EU company is liable corporate tax in the country it operates this separate business for the trading made in that country (or within EU if applicable) and pass the net profit to the mother company. Take as an example McDonald and Coca Cola to keep it simple. The problem is that the Financial Sector international companies have long preferred London as European Base, paying corporate taxes here for all their trade within the EU. This will soon change, and the Financial Market is the biggest contributor to the UK economy....
    • gadgetmind
    • By gadgetmind 26th Jun 16, 3:32 PM
    • 10,959 Posts
    • 8,967 Thanks
    gadgetmind
    and pass the net profit to the mother company. Take as an example McDonald and Coca Cola to keep it simple.
    Originally posted by Marchitiello
    Those two are very deeply not simple, and you can't "pass the net profit" on because that's not how international taxation works. The only way to move profits is by charging for goods and services, which is why I mentioned international transfer pricing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_pricing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_erosion_and_profit_shifting

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_mispricing
    I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.

    Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 26th Jun 16, 3:45 PM
    • 10,933 Posts
    • 7,263 Thanks
    bigadaj
    Those two are very deeply not simple, and you can't "pass the net profit" on because that's not how international taxation works. The only way to move profits is by charging for goods and services, which is why I mentioned international transfer pricing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_pricing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_erosion_and_profit_shifting

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_mispricing
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    Yes, and the issues behind intellectual property and royalty payments makes this even more complicated.

    I'm not aware of any multi national that is moving profits into the uk in order to pay tax, it's normally the usual circuit of payments through Ireland, the Netherlands and the Isle of Man that manages to avoid payment of almost any uk tax.
    • Marchitiello
    • By Marchitiello 26th Jun 16, 7:41 PM
    • 353 Posts
    • 147 Thanks
    Marchitiello
    Those two are very deeply not simple, and you can't "pass the net profit" on because that's not how international taxation works. The only way to move profits is by charging for goods and services, which is why I mentioned international transfer pricing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_pricing

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_erosion_and_profit_shifting

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_mispricing
    Originally posted by gadgetmind
    I was not talking about tax avoidance scheme but of agreement in many international countries not to double tax if profit tax was paid in a subsidiary country. Many USA companies operate in EU under such a scheme.
    • bigadaj
    • By bigadaj 26th Jun 16, 8:49 PM
    • 10,933 Posts
    • 7,263 Thanks
    bigadaj
    I was not talking about tax avoidance scheme but of agreement in many international countries not to double tax if profit tax was paid in a subsidiary country. Many USA companies operate in EU under such a scheme.
    Originally posted by Marchitiello
    Yes, and they generally don't pay much tax in the uk.

    Their preference is not to pay much tax in the Netherlands, Eire, Isle of Man or Channel Islands.
    • zolablue25
    • By zolablue25 26th Jun 16, 9:12 PM
    • 1,632 Posts
    • 473 Thanks
    zolablue25
    I think those people who voted "Leave" so that we can stop "Johnny Foreigner" coming in are going to end up being disappointed. Farage has been sidelined by the Leave team and is not wanted in the negotiating team. Leading Leavers (e.g. Hannan and Johnson) have implied that freedom of movement for labour is likely to continue as part of any trade agreement (as per Norway) and they seem to be OK with this idea.

    As has been said elsewhere, all the vote was for was whether we stayed as a member of the EU or not, there was no mention of immigration on the form.
    • GaleSF63
    • By GaleSF63 26th Jun 16, 11:25 PM
    • 354 Posts
    • 507 Thanks
    GaleSF63
    This is the incredible truth, my own brother voted on that basis. (the right to buy a more powerful vacuum cleaner.)
    Originally posted by eDicky
    His vote will be balanced out by one of those who voted remain because they thought they wouldn't be allowed to go on holiday in Ibiza if we leave.
    • brodev
    • By brodev 28th Jun 16, 9:17 AM
    • 993 Posts
    • 865 Thanks
    brodev
    As I have an Irish grandfather I know that I have the right to get an Irish passport and therefore continued European citizenship. Does anyone know if I decide to go down this line whether or not this would confer the right to get an Irish/EU passport on to my children?
    Another question. If I did this would I still be able to keep my British passport?
    TIA
    Something Really Interesting
    • GingerBob
    • By GingerBob 28th Jun 16, 9:23 AM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 1,657 Thanks
    GingerBob
    As I have an Irish grandfather I know that I have the right to get an Irish passport and therefore continued European citizenship. Does anyone know if I decide to go down this line whether or not this would confer the right to get an Irish/EU passport on to my children?
    Another question. If I did this would I still be able to keep my British passport?
    TIA
    Originally posted by brodev

    No and Yes. For your children to qualify for Irish citizenship you would have needed to be an Irish citizen at the time of their birth. Yes, dual nationality is allowed, and is now obviously a very good idea.
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