The seller now wants more money

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  • ttoli
    ttoli Posts: 825
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    In which case , things have changed since I left the job
  • missile
    missile Posts: 11,684
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    Actually, 2 years ago, I offered her £1500 for it if I could pay it off £200 a month but she said no. I also offered (for free), to have the bike repaired for her and to sell it for her on Ebay just to help her out but she said no to that too? Then 2 years on, I bumped into her again and she said she had been hoping to see me around and that they want rid of the bike and were thinking of scrapping it and would accept any offer!

    Seems you knew the bike was worth much more than 300. You scammed and old lady and her disabled son = shame on you
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home :iloveyou:
  • onomatopoeia99
    onomatopoeia99 Posts: 6,951
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    So you paid 1/10th of its true value.


    Clearly a moneysaving expert to be lauded on here for his supreme negotiating skills then.
    Proud member of the wokerati, though I don't eat tofu.Home is where my books are.Solar PV 5.2kWp system, SE facing, >1% shading, installed March 2019.Mortgage free July 2023
  • AndyMc.....
    AndyMc..... Posts: 3,248
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    Clearly a moneysaving expert to be lauded on here for his supreme negotiating skills then.

    Would you say the same of someone who knowning buys stolen property?
  • Stoke
    Stoke Posts: 3,182 Forumite
    So you paid 1/10th of its true value.

    No, because the bike had a rusty chain and a damaged fuel tank, two flat tyres and probably other problems.

    If I own an Escort Cossie, it's worth 20 grand. If I own an Escort Cossie with a shed load of damage, it isn't worth 20 grand.... it's worth less.

    Sounds to me like the OP hasn't done a whole lot wrong here..... and the nice old lady and daughter are taking the micky.

    Tell them go to the police. I suspect they'll do nothing. At which point it's a civil matter and she's got an upward battle.

    You could return it in the original condition. Take the new battery off etc. You could even void the MOT if you wanted to be vindictive, I think I would to be honest, if I decided to return it. Fact is, I wouldn't return it.
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,662
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    missile wrote: »
    Seems you knew the bike was worth much more than 300. You scammed and old lady and her disabled son = shame on you




    But not in it's current state. Since it was in a poor state and was going to be scrapped, he paid far more than she would have otherwise gotten for it.


    That it's worth 10x the value after spending several hundreds more in work is irrelevant.
  • Stoke
    Stoke Posts: 3,182 Forumite
    missile wrote: »
    Seems you knew the bike was worth much more than 300. You scammed and old lady and her disabled son = shame on you

    :rotfl: dear me.
  • westernpromise
    westernpromise Posts: 4,833 Forumite
    Unfortunately the OP is almost certainly in the wrong because the purported seller of the bike did not have proper legal title to it, and therefore it wasn't granny's to sell any more than it is mine to sell.

    This means of course that neither does the OP have good title to it either. The fact that you bought something in good faith doesn't give you title to it (although interestingly in some countries eg Germany it does - if you buy a stolen car there, in good faith at a fair price, it's yours). What you should have asked for is proof of ownership, in the form of a receipt from whomever the seller in his turn bought it.

    You may have that in any file of paperwork that came with the bike, in which case you're in a good position. You can say the old biddy represented that she acted for the owner, and to that end, she provided the receipt.

    If you don't have that, then strictly the property should be returned to the legitimate owner, which is the disabled bloke. Thefts are at the expense of whoever bought the stolen item, not of the party who lost it. You, however, then seek compensation from granny for your loss. This is not the £300 that you paid her. Your loss is that you no longer have a £2,000 bike. So that's what you're owed by the old biddy who misrepresented that she had the right to sell on the owner's behalf.

    You're helped by the fact that the misrepresentation seems to have been admitted ("her granddaughter has contacted me saying she wants more money or the bike back and that the old lady never had the right to sell it to me").

    So if this goes any further, I'd just set out the above noting that after the work you've done, the bike's worth £2k. If the owner wants it back he can have it, but in that case you will not accept £300 for it. You will instead sue the old lady for £2k to replace it with a similar item for the agreed price, or if she prefers she can pay you this upfront as compensation before you return the bike.

    The fact that you signed on behalf of your son is irrelevant because you and he can adjust that formality at any time. The key fact is that if she had the V5, she signed it, she took money and she gave you the keys, it is beyond argument that she misrepresented.
  • mattyprice4004
    mattyprice4004 Posts: 7,492
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    So you paid 1/10th of its true value.
    Are you drunk?
    He clearly states it's worth that in GOOD condition. Is the condition he's described it as good in your books?! :rotfl:

    Jeepers, this forum is a funny place sometimes
  • Stoke
    Stoke Posts: 3,182 Forumite
    Unfortunately the OP is almost certainly in the wrong because the purported seller of the bike did not have proper legal title to it, and therefore it wasn't granny's to sell any more than it is mine to sell.

    This means of course that neither does the OP have good title to it either. The fact that you bought something in good faith doesn't give you title to it (although interestingly in some countries eg Germany it does - if you buy a stolen car there, in good faith at a fair price, it's yours). What you should have asked for is proof of ownership, in the form of a receipt from whomever the seller in his turn bought it.

    You may have that in any file of paperwork that came with the bike, in which case you're in a good position. You can say the old biddy represented that she acted for the owner, and to that end, she provided the receipt.

    If you don't have that, then strictly the property should be returned to the legitimate owner, which is the disabled bloke. Thefts are at the expense of whoever bought the stolen item, not of the party who lost it. You, however, then seek compensation from granny for your loss. This is not the £300 that you paid her. Your loss is that you no longer have a £2,000 bike. So that's what you're owed by the old biddy who misrepresented that she had the right to sell on the owner's behalf.

    You're helped by the fact that the misrepresentation seems to have been admitted ("her granddaughter has contacted me saying she wants more money or the bike back and that the old lady never had the right to sell it to me").

    So if this goes any further, I'd just set out the above noting that after the work you've done, the bike's worth £2k. If the owner wants it back he can have it, but in that case you will not accept £300 for it. You will instead sue the old lady for £2k to replace it with a similar item for the agreed price, or if she prefers she can pay you this upfront as compensation before you return the bike.

    The fact that you signed on behalf of your son is irrelevant because you and he can adjust that formality at any time. The key fact is that if she had the V5, she signed it, she took money and she gave you the keys, it is beyond argument that she misrepresented.

    Sounds good to be fair. I'm not usually one for 'threatening to sue old ladies' but I think exceptions occasionally have to be made. The OP has spent time, money and effort getting the bike into a roadworthy condition, buying it in good faith. Yes, he was wrong to buy it on the word of the old lady, but then I've bought things off people before that were probably not technically the legal owner (like I bought a TV off someone who's daughter had gone to University). I suspect it's an easier mistake to make than you think.

    Send it in writing to both her and the daughter, spread a little fear.

    Like I said, if she won't pay what you paid to make it roadworthy, then you could always be spiteful and 'return it' to it's original condition. Any welding that was done, you take a nice angle grinder and put back to what it was before.

    If she does offer to cover what you paid, then I would return it without an argument to be honest.
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