PCM fine for own space - clarification on tenancy agreement

Aether · 20 May 2018 at 9:24PM

Hi there,

I have two "outstanding" "fines" from PCM for not displaying a permit in my own parking space, I have contacted Private Parking Appeals UK to help with this but unfortunately it seems the older fine has escalated to the point of debt collection letters anyway (I've sent an email to them about that). The letter is from "Trace" debt recovery uk limited. I'm probably going to ignore them for now as the newbie Q&A states.

I am currently in contact with my Housing Association regarding this and will be calling them tomorrow. I will post back later after their response, will be sure to complain about PCM's antics and point out issues only began once PCM got involved. I will also be looking for clarification between the relationship of themselves, the landlord and PCM.

On several points my tenancy agreement seems to argue that PCM have no case here:

No mention of needing a permit for the space we're alloted.
There is a section that states the tenancy agreement gives "no rights or remedies" to any person except the landlord and tenancy and their respective sucessors.
The section covering changes of services hasn't been followed (We should be sent a letter outlining changes of services and should be given a "reasonable" period of time to respond), essentially PCM's presence appeared overnight with nothing except a singular letter from PCM themselves that we never recieved. PCM have a photograph of the letter apparently hanging halfway out of our letterbox...

All this of course I suppose comes with the "primacy of contract" and "right to quiet enjoyment" arguments as well?

My concern is that I'm unsure of if the tenancy agreement holds weight against any agreements made between the private landlord and PCM directly, if any are made. I know the answer is probably "it depends" but if anybody has any experience or insight in dealing with that particular problem any advice would be appreciated. I am an "assured" tenant.

For what it's worth there were signs previously by the landlord stating residents need to display permits but this was not followed (by anybody) as permits were never sent in the first place and no issues have occurred with parking at all for the last year I've been using the space. It seems they've outsourced to PCM so now I'm experiencing my first issue with parking here!

I would very much prefer not to pay £160/£320+ for parking in my own space but would also like some idea of where things stand in the unlikely event they go to court.

My apologies for following the newbies Q&A loosely, I felt that the tenancy agreement was solid enough on its own.

I haven't stated who the driver of the vehicle was. I didn't appeal to IAS myself due to their reputation as a kangaroo court.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Coupon-mad · 21 May 2018 at 1:55AM

I have contacted Private Parking Appeals UK to help

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/privateparkingappeals.co.uk

''This review is now the matter of legal proceedings''

Seems from that, they are suing (or threatening to sue) online reviewers now. Others might comment about that.

I won't be knowingly helping anyone who is a customer of that firm, sorry. You should have come here first.

Wish I could have helped but not if you are trying to use a forum at the same time as them.

Ask PPA seeing as you paid them...

Guys_Dad · 21 May 2018 at 6:57AM

Slightly confused. You mention housing association and private landlord so I am not sure if you are a tenant of a housing association or a sub let.

The contract with the PPC must be with the landowner. In many cases, the landlord need not be the landowner but a leaseholder.

Assuming you are a direct tenant of the housing association and they appointed a PPC, then your tenancy agreement has primacy and if no mention of parking company in agreement, then you can fall back on that.

However, can the housing association terminate your tenancy agreement and replace it with one that incorporates reference to a PPC?

Aether · 21 May 2018 at 4:04PM

Hi there,

I found the PPA via the parking prankster website IIRC so my bad for not checking that, wouldn't of dealt with them if I know that was the case.

Thanks for the information, I am a direct tenant and have had some confusion ourselves as this is a relatively new development and the HA has recently merged into a larger one. I believe if there will be an issue now it's going to be based on if ownership of the space itself is somehow different to the ownership of the apartment, which I will discuss with the HA.

They shouldn't be able to terminate and replace the tenancy agreement at will as far as I can see. I see no clause in it that allows for that in regards to parking or otherwise, outside of the usual arrangements for eviction.

To confirm the tenancy agreement makes no mention of any parking company or any permit based scheme.

Thanks for the help!

Coupon-mad · 21 May 2018 at 4:41PM

Update us on how PPA help you.

Guys_Dad · 21 May 2018 at 6:15PM

Aether wrote: »

Hi there,

I found the PPA via the parking prankster website IIRC so my bad for not checking that, wouldn't of dealt with them if I know that was the case.

Thanks for the information, I am a direct tenant and have had some confusion ourselves as this is a relatively new development and the HA has recently merged into a larger one. I believe if there will be an issue now it's going to be based on if ownership of the space itself is somehow different to the ownership of the apartment, which I will discuss with the HA.

They shouldn't be able to terminate and replace the tenancy agreement at will as far as I can see. I see no clause in it that allows for that in regards to parking or otherwise, outside of the usual arrangements for eviction.

To confirm the tenancy agreement makes no mention of any parking company or any permit based scheme.

Thanks for the help!

Then I would look at other threads over the last 3-6 months on here where the OP is a leaseholder as your situation is very similar to that but different where the OP is a tenant from a private landlord who is the leaseholder.

Lots of success where primacy of contract has been the clincher and you should concentrate on that point.

Aether · 4 June 2018 at 6:47PM

Hi there,

Just a quick update on this, I've received my second debt collector letter "last warning". I plan to ignore that of course and I'm pretty much at the point where I'm contacting my HA regularly to see if they can help resolve this, the HA is somewhat responsive at least and the housing officers at least aren't too impressed with PCM themselves (they've already had money out of other tenants who needed secondary permits).

PPA I'm not really bothering with at this point since I doubt there is much they could do that is going to really help, the chances are it's at the point where I ignore in perpetuity or I actually get a court letter unless the HA gets it cancelled somehow. I offered to send evidence of my Tenancy agreement at the advice of my HA and PCM didn't even bother to respond to that stating that the terms of their contractual terms apply universally and it isn't disputed that I am a resident. (So they aren't even trying to hide the fact they want money out of residents, hey ho!) Honestly having read this letter half of this I swear they made up on the spot. "It's the motorist's responsibility to first check for signage" in my own parking space indeed.

Ranting aside, primacy of contract is the salient point, and the specifcs of the tenancy agreement that state the conditions under which services can be changed (weren't followed) as well as the specific quote that the agreement offers no rights or remedies to third parties. If a letter for court action actually comes through that's what I'm going to have to build my argument around.

Thanks for the help so far and I'll update if more comes of this.

The_Deep · 4 June 2018 at 7:04PM

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

Aether · 5 June 2018 at 12:05AM

Taking it to the MP is something I'm absolutely intending to do, thanks for the video, it's good to see this is something that is being handled.

I think it's fair to say were they handling anything other than parking these companies would of met an abrupt end years ago.

Coupon-mad · 5 June 2018 at 12:08AM

PPA I'm not really bothering with at this point since I doubt there is much they could do that is going to really help,

You paid them to help.

You saw the TrustPilot reviews? Presumably not beforehand.

Aether · 5 June 2018 at 4:46PM

Indeed not beforehand I went to them straight from the parking prankster website which was probably a mistake.

I've updated them on where things are and they have the relevant documents so I'll just have to see what they end up doing.

PCM fine for own space - clarification on tenancy agreement

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