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    • Spikecast
    • By Spikecast 12th Nov 18, 12:35 AM
    • 62Posts
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    Spikecast
    Please help me regarding access to my son.
    • #1
    • 12th Nov 18, 12:35 AM
    Please help me regarding access to my son. 12th Nov 18 at 12:35 AM
    Hi all,

    I’m going through a situation I never thought I would find myself in and just when I think things can’t get any worse my ex puts the boot in.

    I have a 6 year old son with my ex of 7 years. We are both joint owners (mortgaged) on a property. I have had my suspicions for some months she had been seeing someone behind my back for some months but I cannot prove this other than colleagues and friends having seen them together unbeknown to me . Due to the distress it was causing in front of my son (and step daughter) due to my ex’s behaviour I agreed to vacate the property in the interest of the children.

    I moved out a week ago as she was making my life a misery. I work a 3 week shift pattern whereby I get two days off evey 3-4 days which includes weekdays and weekends. She is not willing to negotiate access beyond 4 days with my son (3 days and two hours to be exact) and in light of my counter offer of 8 days access over 3 weeks she has now informed me she is withdrawing her original “offer” and has dropped it down to 3 days (14% access across my shift pattern) This would result in me not seeing my son for 13 days at one point during the 3 week period. In essence this gives her 62% access and myself 38% with a view to me increasing this access once he has adjusted to the new circumstances.

    Obviously this is really distressing for me as I wish to continue to have a good relationship with my son and wish to see him as much as possible ie on all my 8 days off out of 21. She has told me she will continue to pay all bills and the full mortgage in the house until we sort out selling it or her buying me out. Within days of me moving out her new “friend” has been at the property, around my children which I feel is causing them confusion and uncessary emotional distress as I have been gone a matter of days.

    I now have my own outgoings as I am renting a property around 20 minutes away from my previously family home. She has now today informed me that she has changed the locks on the property as she wasn’t happy I had entered the property by “exploiting” my son and removing items from the house which were joint assets. She is advising me she has changed the locks because she is worried how I will react to her demands for 3 days access, which she states she sees as “in place” from now. Can she legally change the locks? Where do I stand?

    I am now in the process of seeking third party mediation which she is claiming she will accept however knowing how derisory her “offer” of childcare is for me I don’t see this achieving much although from the legal advice I got last week I’ve been informed we must attempt this first which I’m happy to do.

    I cannot work out maintenance for my son because we haven’t agreed on any set dates and times as she assumes her proposal is set in stone to which I have rejected. Ideally I want 50/50 custody of my son but I’m not sure how realistic that is?

    I’m also very concerned that she has changed the locks as I had advised her I have three estate agents attending the property this week to value it and clearly she won’t allow me access.

    Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Spikecast; 12-11-2018 at 7:12 AM.
Page 1
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 12th Nov 18, 9:05 AM
    • 10,365 Posts
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    Comms69
    • #2
    • 12th Nov 18, 9:05 AM
    • #2
    • 12th Nov 18, 9:05 AM
    pay the maintenance at present as with 0 days.


    You can amend this down the line.


    You will not be able to force a sale at present. So it would be a waste of money to do so.


    Yes the advice is correct, you must try mediation.


    Thereafter you can go to court if you aren't happy with the agreement.


    Whilst she can change the locks; she cannot stop you coming in. I would however not come and go. Either return permanently or leave it
    • paddy's mum
    • By paddy's mum 14th Nov 18, 8:26 AM
    • 3,823 Posts
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    paddy's mum
    • #3
    • 14th Nov 18, 8:26 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Nov 18, 8:26 AM

    I .... wish to see him as much as possible ie on all my 8 days off out of 21

    she wasn’t happy I had entered the property ... removing items from the house which were joint assets

    I had advised her I have three estate agents attending the property this week to value it and clearly she won’t allow me access.
    Originally posted by Spikecast
    I'm sorry you are going through this but, for something to think about, these 3 comments jumped out at me.

    1. Eight days out of twenty one is likely to be difficult for the child disrupting nursery or school or play dates while also forcing your ex into a situation which compels her to have very frequent contact with you.

    2. Unless you arranged and/or agreed on the collection of said items, I too would be livid that you had acquired things 'behind my back, as it were. If jointly owned, you do not have the right to just walk in and take them.

    3. When you "advised" her, had the two of you already agreed on this course of action? If not, you should not be surprised that her response is to block your actions, which she probably sees as you being high handed and coercive.

    (In any case, what you actually need is not the inflated price put forward by estate agents but a Valuation for Division done by a properly qualified Valuer)

    It is early days and no doubt feelings are still very raw but a bit of courtesy and (above all) communication can oil the wheels and smooth the path. Good luck to you all.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Nov 18, 11:12 AM
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    Comms69
    • #4
    • 14th Nov 18, 11:12 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Nov 18, 11:12 AM
    I'm sorry you are going through this but, for something to think about, these 3 comments jumped out at me.

    1. Eight days out of twenty one is likely to be difficult for the child disrupting nursery or school or play dates while also forcing your ex into a situation which compels her to have very frequent contact with you. - to be honest 1 in 3 days (roughly) is pretty standard. Most NRPs get a weekend and 1-2 days a week in a fortnight.

    2. Unless you arranged and/or agreed on the collection of said items, I too would be livid that you had acquired things 'behind my back, as it were. If jointly owned, you do not have the right to just walk in and take them.- sorry but he has as much right to take them, as she had to keep them. They're jointly owned.

    3. When you "advised" her, had the two of you already agreed on this course of action? If not, you should not be surprised that her response is to block your actions, which she probably sees as you being high handed and coercive. - don't know about how she sees the actions. BUT the house wont be getting sold any time soon.

    (In any case, what you actually need is not the inflated price put forward by estate agents but a Valuation for Division done by a properly qualified Valuer)

    It is early days and no doubt feelings are still very raw but a bit of courtesy and (above all) communication can oil the wheels and smooth the path. Good luck to you all.
    Originally posted by paddy's mum
    I agree communication is key
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Nov 18, 11:55 AM
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    Comms69
    • #5
    • 14th Nov 18, 11:55 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Nov 18, 11:55 AM
    Has the law changed on this recently? When last mile wanted to get some of her own items (not jointly owned) from a jointly owned home she'd moved out of and was going in when her husband wasn't there, you told her not to do this because it was potentially harrassment?
    Originally posted by Sunny Intervals


    It is, caveated that it requires atleast 2 instances, and I don't recommend someone does this. BUT harassment is nothing to do with ownership.


    I don't recommend someone does this; but the OP already has.


    I get your point though; and I wasn't clear in my answer.


    so i'll rephrase:


    Entering a property you no longer live in is potentially harassment (requires 2 occurrences). So I would not recommend doing so. However in relation to ownership jointly owned property can be claimed by either party
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Nov 18, 4:19 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #6
    • 14th Nov 18, 4:19 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Nov 18, 4:19 PM
    Has the law changed on this recently? When last mile wanted to get some of her own items (not jointly owned) from a jointly owned home she'd moved out of and was going in when her husband wasn't there, you told her not to do this because it was potentially harrassment?
    Originally posted by Sunny Intervals
    The key word is ‘she’ there.

    Another example for you Comms.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Nov 18, 4:28 PM
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    Comms69
    • #7
    • 14th Nov 18, 4:28 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Nov 18, 4:28 PM
    The key word is ‘she’ there.

    Another example for you Comms.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    Its not the same situation, that poster was continuously entering the property. A single occurrence cannot be harassment.


    He / she - I honestly couldn't care less.


    The question I as replying to pertained to ownership of property; which I stand by. Joint property gives both parties equal rights to take possession.


    If the Op in this instance was continuing to enter, I would advise HIM to stop; I agree in that case HE would potentially be harassing his ex.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 14th Nov 18, 4:49 PM
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #8
    • 14th Nov 18, 4:49 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Nov 18, 4:49 PM
    Its not the same situation, that poster was continuously entering the property. A single occurrence cannot be harassment.


    He / she - I honestly couldn't care less.


    The question I as replying to pertained to ownership of property; which I stand by. Joint property gives both parties equal rights to take possession.


    If the Op in this instance was continuing to enter, I would advise HIM to stop; I agree in that case HE would potentially be harassing his ex.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    No point trying to convince me, I just hope you really do think about it when these are pointed out to you as you claimed you wanted to do.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Nov 18, 4:53 PM
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    Comms69
    • #9
    • 14th Nov 18, 4:53 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Nov 18, 4:53 PM
    No point trying to convince me, I just hope you really do think about it when these are pointed out to you as you claimed you wanted to do.
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel


    Look, I don't want the thread to go off topic, but the OP hasn't been back for a while.


    Just because someone is a woman and I say something to them, doesn't make it sexist.


    The circumstances were totally different.
    • Spikecast
    • By Spikecast 16th Nov 18, 10:18 AM
    • 62 Posts
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    Spikecast
    Can I advise that I did enter the property with my ex partners agreement and not otherwise. Also we had verbally agree on which items I would remove, once the items were removed she claimed I had taken them without consent. Basically she resents the fact I removed christmas presents I paid for. I of course left the ones she paid for. I also have receipts proving any ownership. I have no intention of going to our property UNLESS it is to collect my son. The situation now is that she is refusing ANY midweek access and has "revoked" my only mid-week access for no reason. I am about to instigate mediation (first assessment meeting) with a view to hopefully getting an agreement in place. If not unfortunately I will have no option but to apply to the courts.
    Last edited by Spikecast; 16-11-2018 at 10:24 AM.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 16th Nov 18, 1:49 PM
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    Comms69
    I think I must be misreading something. You took back presents? And you consider a receipt proof that you still own something you gave as a gift? Or are these presents you gave your son that you want to store in your new home for his use?
    Originally posted by Sunny Intervals


    I assume, but don't condone in any way, that these gifts had not yet been given and were taken to give at OPs Christmas contact.


    I do not think that is the correct behaviour though. Even with my ex and the issues I'm currently having, I will be contributing towards gifts which the kids will receive at her home.


    I just want the kids to have a nice Christmas.
    • calleyw
    • By calleyw 16th Nov 18, 8:18 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
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    calleyw
    Can I advise that I did enter the property with my ex partners agreement and not otherwise. Also we had verbally agree on which items I would remove, once the items were removed she claimed I had taken them without consent.
    Originally posted by Spikecast

    That was your biggest mistake. Make sure its in a text or a e-mail what you agree to.


    As others wise it gets in to the he said/she said stuff arena. And you then have proof to back you up.


    I really do wish when people split that acted like adults. Its get bitter and twisted. And when there are children involved it million times worse.


    Yours


    Calley x
    Hope for everything and expect nothing!!!

    Good enough is almost always good enough -Prof Barry Schwartz

    If it scares you, it might be a good thing to try -Seth Godin
    • theoretica
    • By theoretica 17th Nov 18, 10:55 PM
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    theoretica
    Does she work? If she is in a position to pay the mortgage and maybe buy you out it sounds like she does. At the moment it reads as though you are demanding access on the days you are not at work, regardless of her working pattern, and indeed of the working pattern she might have if able to arrange shared custody around her work.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
    • Spikecast
    • By Spikecast 19th Nov 18, 10:38 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Spikecast
    Does she work? If she is in a position to pay the mortgage and maybe buy you out it sounds like she does. At the moment it reads as though you are demanding access on the days you are not at work, regardless of her working pattern, and indeed of the working pattern she might have if able to arrange shared custody around her work.
    Originally posted by theoretica
    Firstly I'm not "demanding" anything, I'm trying to come to an agreement regarding fair access for my son and ideally would prefer 50% custody (although I concede this is unlikely). Yes she does work full time as I do however she refuses to disclose what she is wanting to do regarding the house now the valuations are back. Clearly I want to move on with my life and I can't do that whilst stuck in a mortgage with someone who doesn't want to move things forward sensibly, I also have two car loans with her which need re-financing (they are for two vehicles) or clearing off with the sale of the cars.
    • Spikecast
    • By Spikecast 19th Nov 18, 10:39 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Spikecast
    That was your biggest mistake. Make sure its in a text or a e-mail what you agree to.


    As others wise it gets in to the he said/she said stuff arena. And you then have proof to back you up.


    I really do wish when people split that acted like adults. Its get bitter and twisted. And when there are children involved it million times worse.


    Yours


    Calley x
    Originally posted by calleyw
    Totally agree but unfortunately she has a bad habit of not sticking to agreements.
    • Spikecast
    • By Spikecast 19th Nov 18, 10:42 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Spikecast
    I think I must be misreading something. You took back presents? And you consider a receipt proof that you still own something you gave as a gift? Or are these presents you gave your son that you want to store in your new home for his use?
    Originally posted by Sunny Intervals
    We agreed that I would pay for my sons presents and she would pay for my step daughters. I removed them so that I could give my son his presents from me at my new place so he has his "christmas" with me one day and her on christmas day. Just to add I've had to instigate mediation (initial meeting) due to the fact she refuses to discuss or wish to resolve anything. She states she will attend mediation so hopefully this will go some way to making the situation at little less hostile.
    • Spikecast
    • By Spikecast 19th Nov 18, 5:41 PM
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    Spikecast
    I’ll update the thread once mediation has taken place.
    Last edited by Spikecast; 19-11-2018 at 5:43 PM.
    • calleyw
    • By calleyw 19th Nov 18, 6:32 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
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    calleyw
    Totally agree but unfortunately she has a bad habit of not sticking to agreements.
    Originally posted by Spikecast



    Does not matter if she sticks to them or not. At least if they are in a written form you have the proof so she wont be able to say I never agreed to that.


    So if you ever have to go to court etc you have proof.


    Yours


    Calley
    Hope for everything and expect nothing!!!

    Good enough is almost always good enough -Prof Barry Schwartz

    If it scares you, it might be a good thing to try -Seth Godin
    • Spikecast
    • By Spikecast 20th Nov 18, 1:41 AM
    • 62 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Spikecast
    Does not matter if she sticks to them or not. At least if they are in a written form you have the proof so she wont be able to say I never agreed to that.


    So if you ever have to go to court etc you have proof.


    Yours


    Calley
    Originally posted by calleyw
    This is what I'm trying to achieve. I'm slowly but surely getting there with it but I think mediation may give some clarity as going to court is obviously a last resort.
    • Rubik
    • By Rubik 20th Nov 18, 8:28 AM
    • 298 Posts
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    Rubik
    I would suggest that before you attend mediation you write down a clear, detailed proposal for child arrangements covering all aspects of your son's life - ie:

    How often the children will be with each parent during the school week
    How the weekends are shared
    Arrangements for Christmas, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, birthdays etc
    Arrangements for school holidays, bank holidays and inset days
    Arrangements for school events and parents' evenings
    How you will communicate with each other and the children when they are with the other parent
    Arrangements for medical and dental appointments
    Who has responsibility for specific decision making, including clarity over which decisions require joint approval
    The process for dispute resolution
    Arrangements regarding religious and faith based activities
    Arrangements for special family events
    Arrangements relating to contact time with grandparents and other family members

    This will show you have put a great deal of thought into the best arrangements for your child, with your child's welfare at the very heart of your proposal. It will also give you and your ex a base from which to start discussions.
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